Atmosphere (again)

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I don't think fans should be quiet if the team is having a shocker. The opposite should happen in fact IMO.

In a time gone by, or lower league thats the case.
Sadly, I think for a lot of fans, at a lot of top teams, there are a large number of players that people genuinely dislike.

Some of our players are actually despised. Its no surprise that on a bad day, no one really feels like singing away.
 
Football is not like going to the theatre, it's tribal. When has football ever been a family orientated sport? Football was the sport for the working class. Not anymore.
Have a family stand, simple. How may families actually go to football? Once you're 14 you should be capable, and want to, go on your own with your pals.
There is always going to be swearing at football. The players do it too. Don't see nay fathers complaining to their respective teams that so and so swore and my kid heard/lip read it.
If you don't want to hear swearing, don't go to football.
The best point is 10.
That's what has fucked up football. I'd go as far as saying first 2 teams European Cup KO. That way 4th is not success. The next 3 Uefa Cup and make that KO. That way two of our top 4 teams, and others, will be in the Uefa cup. It will give it back some prestige. Same schedule.
Reintroduce the European Cup Winners cup and place for FA/League Cup winners. This would revitalise both domestic cups.
Nostalgiaize (my word).

Of course safe standing and for £10 per person. No under 18's.
 
Football is not like going to the theatre, it's tribal. When has football ever been a family orientated sport? Football was the sport for the working class. Not anymore.
Have a family stand, simple. How may families actually go to football? Once you're 14 you should be capable, and want to, go on your own with your pals.
There is always going to be swearing at football. The players do it too. Don't see nay fathers complaining to their respective teams that so and so swore and my kid heard/lip read it.
If you don't want to hear swearing, don't go to football.
The best point is 10.
That's what has fucked up football. I'd go as far as saying first 2 teams European Cup KO. That way 4th is not success. The next 3 Uefa Cup and make that KO. That way two of our top 4 teams, and others, will be in the Uefa cup. It will give it back some prestige. Same schedule.
Reintroduce the European Cup Winners cup and place for FA/League Cup winners. This would revitalise both domestic cups.
Nostalgiaize (my word).

Of course safe standing and for £10 per person. No under 18's.
Pisses me off so much when people complain about swearing at football, supposedly on behalf of children. I can remember when I was first going to football as an 8 year old kid and I loved the swearing, singing, drunkenness and seeing occasional violence!

Apparently we might be reduced to 3 teams in the CL soon, due to poor performance of English clubs in Europe. I think 3 is still too much, the obsession with it will remain and the UEFA Cup will still be regarded as shit. Reducing it to 1 or 2 teams would do the trick though.
 
This is a really good thread.

Agree with a lot and disagree with some points here throughout the the thread but its really quite thought-provoking. As an example (and im sure its been said here before given the 6 Nations thread in OT) I do also enjoy going to rugby games as well. You can drink in your seat, sing what the fuck you like, sit next to oppo fans and have some fun / good natured banter, stewarding is sensible. Admittedly football historically has been more "tribal" as a previous poster pointed out, but there has to be something inherantly wrong in the marketing of the game, or the fanbase, or something... To make it so different. Even cricket you can sit there from 10am and drink solidly all day and no aggro will happen - OK its a slower game with less money involved in it, but the principle must be similar? Is it something wrong with us, as fans? Is our behaviour really that bad? Is it a result of what we pay to get in the ground to experience the Sky Family Vision Of Football? I really cant put my finger on it.
 
This is a really good thread.

Agree with a lot and disagree with some points here throughout the the thread but its really quite thought-provoking. As an example (and im sure its been said here before given the 6 Nations thread in OT) I do also enjoy going to rugby games as well. You can drink in your seat, sing what the fuck you like, sit next to oppo fans and have some fun / good natured banter, stewarding is sensible. Admittedly football historically has been more "tribal" as a previous poster pointed out, but there has to be something inherantly wrong in the marketing of the game, or the fanbase, or something... To make it so different. Even cricket you can sit there from 10am and drink solidly all day and no aggro will happen - OK its a slower game with less money involved in it, but the principle must be similar? Is it something wrong with us, as fans? Is our behaviour really that bad? Is it a result of what we pay to get in the ground to experience the Sky Family Vision Of Football? I really cant put my finger on it.
I suppose we all want different things from football. IMO the moment we can sit in harmony drinking with Woolwich and Chelsea fans is the moment football is dead.

As for why it is like this...I think for one thing it is a more exciting game, fewer goals/points therefore a goal is more important, and faster than cricket (not sure if faster than rugby?, never watch it). But more importantly, I think football has always had the tradition of being a place you can go to, where the boundaries of acceptability are different from normal society. It probably has its roots in it being a working-class game, where people would come to let off steam after a hard week in the factory...whereas cricket and rugby are more middle-class games.
 
I also think that the behaviour of fans is not that "bad", but we are treated as though it is, hence the stewarding etc. I think that comes as part of the drive to make it a more family friendly, corporate friendly experience. And I think when people are treated badly, they tend to act worse...look at the policing for Newcastle-Sunderland games and what has worked and not worked. At the same time, not having segregation will never work unless we're playing a team like Fulham, and IMO that's a good thing.
 
Safe standing would be a huge step forward with regards to atmosphere, however, making it over 18s only is a silly idea, I take my youngest sister (shes 16) and she loves the swearing and pure footballness of it. It's kind of the only way you can get away with shouting at the top of your voice thst Sol Campbell is a whatever and get away with it.

If you don't want your kids or relatives hearing swearing, watch the game on tv until they're old enough.
 
No problem with a family stand, we have one at my home club and these lil ones are really vocal - we start a chant in our 'kop' and then they roar it back at us, quite impressive.

We also have a system where the top 25 rows are standing optional, you have a seat but you have the right to stand up and sing and watch the game standing up - it's the best of both worlds. No complaining from stewards or other fans because they know that the area is designated for standing and it creates a very good atmosphere + added bonus they made the space between the rows larger in our new stadium so you can stand up without getting at least 5 bruises from hitting the chairs in front and behind you.
 
Safe standing would be a huge step forward with regards to atmosphere, however, making it over 18s only is a silly idea, I take my youngest sister (shes 16) and she loves the swearing and pure footballness of it. It's kind of the only way you can get away with shouting at the top of your voice thst Sol Campbell is a whatever and get away with it.

If you don't want your kids or relatives hearing swearing, watch the game on tv until they're old enough.
True. I reckon there's lots of people who are 15-18 and who are passionate fans, who would fit right into such a stand.
 
Reading the thread about the surfer flag, this is a list of 10 things which I think would really improve the atmosphere. Feel free to add or debate any of them. I am aware that very few, if any of these, would ever happen due to the various reasons that have caused football to become sanitised in the first place, but I thought it would be interesting to discuss this anyway. In no particular order:

1. A law being passed which states that professional football clubs must devote 1% of the total wage bill to subsidising ticket prices.
2. An end to football banning orders.
3. Violence at football to be given the same treatment by the law as it would if not committed in a football setting, such as down the pub.
4. Introduce safe standing areas.
5. The Park Lane lower being a terrace devoted to hardcore fans, with subsidised tickets being available there, and a blind eye turned to offensive chanting, gestures etc in this section. Families and quiet fans should be discouraged from standing there.
6. Let in ticker tape and flags of any size to the above area. Flags are created by the fans independently of the club and do not have to be vetted or endorsed by the club.
7. Better stocked, cheaper bars in the concourses. Let people drink on the Park Lane terrace.
8. An end to this whole farce about not being allowed to say YIDS. And not being allowed Star of David flags (as a side note, this latter point is surely something enforced by the club at the moment, not the law?)
9. Away fans given an allocation which is 10% of capacity, as in Germany
10. Changes to football itself:
Make the CL for the champions only. CL games on Tuesday nights. A straight knockout competition.
UEFA Cup on Wednesday nights. Again a straight knockout competition. Top leagues should have 5 places, so from England those would be the teams finishing 2nd, 3rd and 4th, and the winners of the league and FA Cups. Accordingly, there would be more Saturday 3pm kick offs, and more interest in the league and FA Cup.
Stricter rules on financial fair play.
A rule stating all clubs must have a quota of home grown players.
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Can't find anything I disagree with. Well said
 
Reading the thread about the surfer flag, this is a list of 10 things which I think would really improve the atmosphere. Feel free to add or debate any of them. I am aware that very few, if any of these, would ever happen due to the various reasons that have caused football to become sanitised in the first place, but I thought it would be interesting to discuss this anyway. In no particular order:

1. A law being passed which states that professional football clubs must devote 1% of the total wage bill to subsidising ticket prices.
2. An end to football banning orders.
3. Violence at football to be given the same treatment by the law as it would if not committed in a football setting, such as down the pub.
4. Introduce safe standing areas.
5. The Park Lane lower being a terrace devoted to hardcore fans, with subsidised tickets being available there, and a blind eye turned to offensive chanting, gestures etc in this section. Families and quiet fans should be discouraged from standing there.
6. Let in ticker tape and flags of any size to the above area. Flags are created by the fans independently of the club and do not have to be vetted or endorsed by the club.
7. Better stocked, cheaper bars in the concourses. Let people drink on the Park Lane terrace.
8. An end to this whole farce about not being allowed to say YIDS. And not being allowed Star of David flags (as a side note, this latter point is surely something enforced by the club at the moment, not the law?)
9. Away fans given an allocation which is 10% of capacity, as in Germany
10. Changes to football itself:
Make the CL for the champions only. CL games on Tuesday nights. A straight knockout competition.
UEFA Cup on Wednesday nights. Again a straight knockout competition. Top leagues should have 5 places, so from England those would be the teams finishing 2nd, 3rd and 4th, and the winners of the league and FA Cups. Accordingly, there would be more Saturday 3pm kick offs, and more interest in the league and FA Cup.
Stricter rules on financial fair play.
A rule stating all clubs must have a quota of home grown players.
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Point 5 is a definite. Supporters are scared stiff about what they can and can't sing now. Fair enough, there are lines that shouldn't be crossed, but those lines should be very broad.
 
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