Anthony Georgiou

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They chronically lack experience though. They won’t hold up in CL or against the top 5.

Sanchez is a good defender but he lacks the ability to distribute.

I like Foyth as well and still hope he comes good but he’s unreliable and is error prone.

Eyoma is not ready at this level with zero experience.

Tanganga is just getting started with 2 games under his belt.

We had to sign Toby really, if only to hand down experience and guide these young centre backs to learn.

I personally would be horrified if we went into a season with those 4, and I am not sure if all of them are prem quality.
Jan and Toby are not holding up against top 5 in the league! They are ripped to pieces most games, admittedly this is also because of a lack of a midfield in front of them but they are miles off their best. I still love these guys but now is the time to invest in the playing time of the future, so we can reap the benefits next season.

A lot still has to be sorted out with how we are going to play under Jose, if we are going to play with a low block then there will be a lot less running required, so this could prolong the playing time with the old boys. But flip the coin over and this could also mean that it's easier to bed in the young lads too, it's easier to defend in a low block than it is when the defence is exposed to 2v2's or balls over the top if he plays higher up the pitch.

In any event, both scenarios could do with getting the CM/DM sorted for us to improve as an entire unit.
 
Jan and Toby are not holding up against top 5 in the league! They are ripped to pieces most games, admittedly this is also because of a lack of a midfield in front of them but they are miles off their best. I still love these guys but now is the time to invest in the playing time of the future, so we can reap the benefits next season.

A lot still has to be sorted out with how we are going to play under Jose, if we are going to play with a low block then there will be a lot less running required, so this could prolong the playing time with the old boys. But flip the coin over and this could also mean that it's easier to bed in the young lads too, it's easier to defend in a low block than it is when the defence is exposed to 2v2's or balls over the top if he plays higher up the pitch.

In any event, both scenarios could do with getting the CM/DM sorted for us to improve as an entire unit.
Sure we are losing with Toby and Jan playing, but why would putting in even worse, inferior or inexperienced players improve the results?

It's just fan desperation.

Look at the performances Sanchez and Foyth have put in this year. Even worse than Jan and Toby.
 
Sure we are losing with Toby and Jan playing, but why would putting in even worse, inferior or inexperienced players improve the results?

It's just fan desperation.

Look at the performances Sanchez and Foyth have put in this year. Even worse than Jan and Toby.
I'm not talking about results, I'm talking about investing in players minutes for the sake of next season and the season after that. I'd rather lose playing any of the younger lads than lose with Toby and Jan player.

I disagree with your assessment of Toby and Jan THIS YEAR. Jan has been nothing other than shit and Sanchez has been far better than Toby.

I'd go so far as to say Sanchez has been our best player across the season to date.

Toby has certainly got games left in him and he's by no means done as a player but he's performances have dropped off a cliff and is as fast as a snail. So I don't get why we gave him a new deal unless we are going to sell him this summer then there maybe that's the only logic to doing it but that would still mean playing him over and above some promising young players that can develop into promising players that have a far brighter career ahead of them at Tottenham than Toby does.
 
I'm not talking about results, I'm talking about investing in players minutes for the sake of next season and the season after that. I'd rather lose playing any of the younger lads than lose with Toby and Jan player.

I disagree with your assessment of Toby and Jan THIS YEAR. Jan has been nothing other than shit and Sanchez has been far better than Toby.

I'd go so far as to say Sanchez has been our best player across the season to date.

Toby has certainly got games left in him and he's by no means done as a player but he's performances have dropped off a cliff and is as fast as a snail. So I don't get why we gave him a new deal unless we are going to sell him this summer then there maybe that's the only logic to doing it but that would still mean playing him over and above some promising young players that can develop into promising players that have a far brighter career ahead of them at Tottenham than Toby does.

Agreed with your assessment of Jan (sadly as he's been one of my favourite players) and Toby who I was surprised we gave a new contract to - think his future will be agreed next summer, could go either way, and even if he stays he might still go in summer 2021.

If both Jan and Toby are leaving this summer, Foyth has looked way off the pace as a CB and overtaken by Tanganga (based upon admittedly limited playing time) , so going into the TW we would realistically only have Suarez and Tanganga……...or if Toby stays its Toby, Suarez and Tanganga.

Whichever, better to give Suarez and Tanganga a decent amount of playing time so that we have either 2 or 3 CB's to build round for next season with a need to buy either one or two CB's to have a decent defence for 2020/21.
 
Agreed with your assessment of Jan (sadly as he's been one of my favourite players) and Toby who I was surprised we gave a new contract to - think his future will be agreed next summer, could go either way, and even if he stays he might still go in summer 2021.

If both Jan and Toby are leaving this summer, Foyth has looked way off the pace as a CB and overtaken by Tanganga (based upon admittedly limited playing time) , so going into the TW we would realistically only have Suarez and Tanganga……...or if Toby stays its Toby, Suarez and Tanganga.

Whichever, better to give Suarez and Tanganga a decent amount of playing time so that we have either 2 or 3 CB's to build round for next season with a need to buy either one or two CB's to have a decent defence for 2020/21.
Suarez?? Take it you mean Sanchez, unless we have a youth team player called Suarez. Please don't confuse me, as I've only had three hours kip, and my flight home has been delayed by an hour.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
Agreed with your assessment of Jan (sadly as he's been one of my favourite players) and Toby who I was surprised we gave a new contract to - think his future will be agreed next summer, could go either way, and even if he stays he might still go in summer 2021.

If both Jan and Toby are leaving this summer, Foyth has looked way off the pace as a CB and overtaken by Tanganga (based upon admittedly limited playing time) , so going into the TW we would realistically only have Suarez and Tanganga……...or if Toby stays its Toby, Suarez and Tanganga.

Whichever, better to give Suarez and Tanganga a decent amount of playing time so that we have either 2 or 3 CB's to build round for next season with a need to buy either one or two CB's to have a decent defence for 2020/21.
I think Foyth has played well. Yes, he's made errors but if you look at the errors he's made they've been done to him being over-confident(??), I'd rather see this than him just being shit (like not being able to control a football, or unable to pass the ball). I'd also guess that he was probably encouraged to play that way (bring the ball out of defence, to which I would also approve of) but perhaps Jose wouldn't want that of his CB's??

Where I think Tanganga showed himself more than Foyth was his strength/assertiveness when challenging the oppo. (but only in the Liverpool game). Any of our young CB's will be the target of the oppo, they will always be the perceived weakness and any oppo will look to intimidate, bully and double up to expose the weakness, Tanganga just went for it and stood toe to toe. He was well and truly beaten against Watford (all be it more out of position than he was against Liverpool, but he lost his 1v1's for 3/4 of that game).

Foyth has stood up well to the physical challenge, never been dominated whilst he also had never fully asserted himself. His errors have also come in games he's played well in. Ther is a really good player in there I think and I think we've got 4 fantastic CB's that can form the genisis of a new spine for us for years to come.

They will still be exposed because our midfield is still shit. Remember when before Poch came in, teams battered us with Vertonghen often getting caught high up the pitch in our high-line or done 1v1 with a ball over the top or have a player run at him? The issue then wasn't Vertonghen, it was how we were set up collectively, what our midfield did without the ball, and we didn't press teams on the ball. Basically it was similar to now, we conceded shots on our goal, our defence was our only tactical formation, everything else was just a chaotic mess.
 
I think Foyth has played well. Yes, he's made errors but if you look at the errors he's made they've been done to him being over-confident(??), I'd rather see this than him just being shit (like not being able to control a football, or unable to pass the ball). I'd also guess that he was probably encouraged to play that way (bring the ball out of defence, to which I would also approve of) but perhaps Jose wouldn't want that of his CB's??

Where I think Tanganga showed himself more than Foyth was his strength/assertiveness when challenging the oppo. (but only in the Liverpool game). Any of our young CB's will be the target of the oppo, they will always be the perceived weakness and any oppo will look to intimidate, bully and double up to expose the weakness, Tanganga just went for it and stood toe to toe. He was well and truly beaten against Watford (all be it more out of position than he was against Liverpool, but he lost his 1v1's for 3/4 of that game).

Foyth has stood up well to the physical challenge, never been dominated whilst he also had never fully asserted himself. His errors have also come in games he's played well in. Ther is a really good player in there I think and I think we've got 4 fantastic CB's that can form the genisis of a new spine for us for years to come.

They will still be exposed because our midfield is still shit. Remember when before Poch came in, teams battered us with Vertonghen often getting caught high up the pitch in our high-line or done 1v1 with a ball over the top or have a player run at him? The issue then wasn't Vertonghen, it was how we were set up collectively, what our midfield did without the ball, and we didn't press teams on the ball. Basically it was similar to now, we conceded shots on our goal, our defence was our only tactical formation, everything else was just a chaotic mess.

I don’t know if Foyth’s issue is over-confidence. Some might call it bad judgement, and that’s aka bad football brain, which is quite critical for a defender.

I really do hope he comes good one day, he has something that Sanchez doesn’t but the jury’s still out I think, I won’t be trusting Foyth anytime soon to take over the starting spot.

Some players never get rid of these brain farts you know, just look at Aurier.
 
I don’t know if Foyth’s issue is over-confidence. Some might call it bad judgement, and that’s aka bad football brain, which is quite critical for a defender.

I really do hope he comes good one day, he has something that Sanchez doesn’t but the jury’s still out I think, I won’t be trusting Foyth anytime soon to take over the starting spot.

Some players never get rid of these brain farts you know, just look at Aurier.
He's 22yrs old mate, EVERY player that age will make a bad call, be that lack of judgement or just taking the wrong option. When playing against mature players (he will not be every week as oppo also playing young players) that is likely to get punished. It's part and parcel of a young players development.

Just look at De Ligt right now, his quality was clear for all to see, he got his big move (in my opinion to the wrong club) but has really struggled this season, making numerous errors. These are no doubt as a result primarily because he's just 20yrs old! Having to deal with a new team (his first new team he's played for in his life), new country etc......but at 20 he will be the target of any oppo striker who fancies his luck. This is the natural path to development, some come through it, others don't.

He reminds me of John Stones, Stones got a lot of mins under his belt at the same age, was brilliant but still was prone to an error, those errors were very similar, usually when trying to take the ball out of defence. Since his injury he's not been able to get his place back in the team, is this because he's simply not developed his game and is still making the same errors? Or is it a fitness & confidence issues as a result of the injury?

In any event, most CB's don't reach their heights until 26 or 27yrs old you only have to look at Toby for evidence of this, before we bought him he was out on loan at Southampton at the age of 26yrs. Van Dijk was getting nutmegged and spun by Kane whilst playing for Southampton whilst 26yrs old. No one was talking about these two as anything "special" before they made their moves.

Now that might support the argument for unearthing a mature CB who's 26/27 but are we going to drop £80-£100m on a CB?

IMO we are in a truly unique position of possessing 4 very promising young CB's, all will be desperate for minutes, all will, therefore, be pushing each other for a starting slot. This season more than any other should be their opportunity (because we are 8th and 9pts off top four) and with every passing week, our current CB's will get worse, not better by the same token the young lads should with every passing week be getting better. As I say, I'd rather lose trying to develop the future of Tottenham, than lose sticking with what will be the past of Tottenham.
 
Last error I remeber from Foyth was a misplaced pass from Sissoko that put the ball tô him in the middle of 3 players. He lost the ball. He's off, Sissoko is in. Our midfielders, in Sissoko and Winks, put us under fire more than any defender, but they aren't changes.
 
He's 22yrs old mate, EVERY player that age will make a bad call, be that lack of judgement or just taking the wrong option. When playing against mature players (he will not be every week as oppo also playing young players) that is likely to get punished. It's part and parcel of a young players development.

Just look at De Ligt right now, his quality was clear for all to see, he got his big move (in my opinion to the wrong club) but has really struggled this season, making numerous errors. These are no doubt as a result primarily because he's just 20yrs old! Having to deal with a new team (his first new team he's played for in his life), new country etc......but at 20 he will be the target of any oppo striker who fancies his luck. This is the natural path to development, some come through it, others don't.

He reminds me of John Stones, Stones got a lot of mins under his belt at the same age, was brilliant but still was prone to an error, those errors were very similar, usually when trying to take the ball out of defence. Since his injury he's not been able to get his place back in the team, is this because he's simply not developed his game and is still making the same errors? Or is it a fitness & confidence issues as a result of the injury?

In any event, most CB's don't reach their heights until 26 or 27yrs old you only have to look at Toby for evidence of this, before we bought him he was out on loan at Southampton at the age of 26yrs. Van Dijk was getting nutmegged and spun by Kane whilst playing for Southampton whilst 26yrs old. No one was talking about these two as anything "special" before they made their moves.

Now that might support the argument for unearthing a mature CB who's 26/27 but are we going to drop £80-£100m on a CB?

IMO we are in a truly unique position of possessing 4 very promising young CB's, all will be desperate for minutes, all will, therefore, be pushing each other for a starting slot. This season more than any other should be their opportunity (because we are 8th and 9pts off top four) and with every passing week, our current CB's will get worse, not better by the same token the young lads should with every passing week be getting better. As I say, I'd rather lose trying to develop the future of Tottenham, than lose sticking with what will be the past of Tottenham.
Stones & Rio Ferdinand are the opposite ends of the spectrum imo - both had mistakes in them at a young age but massive potential, Rio managed to develop his game to largely iron them out.

We are still talking about Stones' potential and always will be imo, if he hasn't been able to develop his game significantly under Pep (who you think would be a perfect manager for his type of player) he never will.
 
Stones & Rio Ferdinand are the opposite ends of the spectrum imo - both had mistakes in them at a young age but massive potential, Rio managed to develop his game to largely iron them out.

We are still talking about Stones' potential and always will be imo, if he hasn't been able to develop his game significantly under Pep (who you think would be a perfect manager for his type of player) he never will.
My comparison with Foyth and Stones is based on where Stones was when he was 22 (same age as Foyth now). And yes, I agree he hasn't developed, still has exactly the same errors in him as he had when City bought him and first starting to play him. I didn't claim that he had developed further.

So, City sells him, what do you think he's worth? I bet another club will buy him/value him for +£50m. Now, we didn't spend £50m on Foyth, he cost us £8m!!! He may go exactly the same way as Stones and not develop further or he could become a fucking world-class CB, the potential is there just as it was with Stones and Ferdinand (and others). He will still make errors, but right now both Toby and Jan are also making errors, so what's the difference? There is only a downside with Toby and Jan, there is only upside with ALL of the younger CB's on our books.
 
Last error I remeber from Foyth was a misplaced pass from Sissoko that put the ball tô him in the middle of 3 players. He lost the ball. He's off, Sissoko is in. Our midfielders, in Sissoko and Winks, put us under fire more than any defender, but they aren't changes.
Our midfield is shit mate, our defence struggles as a consequence and will continue to struggle no matter who is at CB. If VVD was plopped into the middle of our defence he will still have three times the amount of defending to do as he does at Liverpool.
 
He's 22yrs old mate, EVERY player that age will make a bad call, be that lack of judgement or just taking the wrong option. When playing against mature players (he will not be every week as oppo also playing young players) that is likely to get punished. It's part and parcel of a young players development.

Just look at De Ligt right now, his quality was clear for all to see, he got his big move (in my opinion to the wrong club) but has really struggled this season, making numerous errors. These are no doubt as a result primarily because he's just 20yrs old! Having to deal with a new team (his first new team he's played for in his life), new country etc......but at 20 he will be the target of any oppo striker who fancies his luck. This is the natural path to development, some come through it, others don't.

He reminds me of John Stones, Stones got a lot of mins under his belt at the same age, was brilliant but still was prone to an error, those errors were very similar, usually when trying to take the ball out of defence. Since his injury he's not been able to get his place back in the team, is this because he's simply not developed his game and is still making the same errors? Or is it a fitness & confidence issues as a result of the injury?

In any event, most CB's don't reach their heights until 26 or 27yrs old you only have to look at Toby for evidence of this, before we bought him he was out on loan at Southampton at the age of 26yrs. Van Dijk was getting nutmegged and spun by Kane whilst playing for Southampton whilst 26yrs old. No one was talking about these two as anything "special" before they made their moves.

Now that might support the argument for unearthing a mature CB who's 26/27 but are we going to drop £80-£100m on a CB?

IMO we are in a truly unique position of possessing 4 very promising young CB's, all will be desperate for minutes, all will, therefore, be pushing each other for a starting slot. This season more than any other should be their opportunity (because we are 8th and 9pts off top four) and with every passing week, our current CB's will get worse, not better by the same token the young lads should with every passing week be getting better. As I say, I'd rather lose trying to develop the future of Tottenham, than lose sticking with what will be the past of Tottenham.

Agree with lots of that but Tanganga, aged 20, looks a lot more composed, relaxed but alert and able (also comes through in his interviews) than Foyth at aged 22 and thereby most likely to be easier to integrate into the first team.

Sure, Foyth is far from a lost cause and ripe for development, and I do take on board the John Stones comparison as he seems to have plateaued. So question is whether we can develop Foyth in house or whether he neds a loan to a coach we trust to help develop him.
 
He's 22yrs old mate, EVERY player that age will make a bad call, be that lack of judgement or just taking the wrong option. When playing against mature players (he will not be every week as oppo also playing young players) that is likely to get punished. It's part and parcel of a young players development.

Just look at De Ligt right now, his quality was clear for all to see, he got his big move (in my opinion to the wrong club) but has really struggled this season, making numerous errors. These are no doubt as a result primarily because he's just 20yrs old! Having to deal with a new team (his first new team he's played for in his life), new country etc......but at 20 he will be the target of any oppo striker who fancies his luck. This is the natural path to development, some come through it, others don't.

He reminds me of John Stones, Stones got a lot of mins under his belt at the same age, was brilliant but still was prone to an error, those errors were very similar, usually when trying to take the ball out of defence. Since his injury he's not been able to get his place back in the team, is this because he's simply not developed his game and is still making the same errors? Or is it a fitness & confidence issues as a result of the injury?

In any event, most CB's don't reach their heights until 26 or 27yrs old you only have to look at Toby for evidence of this, before we bought him he was out on loan at Southampton at the age of 26yrs. Van Dijk was getting nutmegged and spun by Kane whilst playing for Southampton whilst 26yrs old. No one was talking about these two as anything "special" before they made their moves.

Now that might support the argument for unearthing a mature CB who's 26/27 but are we going to drop £80-£100m on a CB?

IMO we are in a truly unique position of possessing 4 very promising young CB's, all will be desperate for minutes, all will, therefore, be pushing each other for a starting slot. This season more than any other should be their opportunity (because we are 8th and 9pts off top four) and with every passing week, our current CB's will get worse, not better by the same token the young lads should with every passing week be getting better. As I say, I'd rather lose trying to develop the future of Tottenham, than lose sticking with what will be the past of Tottenham.

I just hope you’re right. We didn’t pay too much for him but there is clearly some potential that we want to see him realise, would be a shame if his mental issues hold him back.

So far, I would say that he’s not ready.
 
Suarez?? Take it you mean Sanchez, unless we have a youth team player called Suarez. Please don't confuse me, as I've only had three hours kip, and my flight home has been delayed by an hour.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

For some reason my brain thinks of Sanchez but my fingers type Suarez....and its not even the sangria doing it !,
 
Agree with lots of that but Tanganga, aged 20, looks a lot more composed, relaxed but alert and able (also comes through in his interviews) than Foyth at aged 22 and thereby most likely to be easier to integrate into the first team.

Sure, Foyth is far from a lost cause and ripe for development, and I do take on board the John Stones comparison as he seems to have plateaued. So question is whether we can develop Foyth in house or whether he neds a loan to a coach we trust to help develop him.
Agree.

However, just try this out for a second. Suppose Tanganga's first game was the game against Watford. There was a lot of people supporting his performance against Watford, which is great to see and makes a big difference than the usual ripping into young players we usually see. But at the end of the day, he spent 3/4's of that game getting ripped apart. The harsh reality.

Foyth has by and large always played well in every game for us when selected but there has been the one error in each that draws the attention from some. He has never been ripped apart the way Tanganga was against Watford (and he has been played out of position numerous times too). There is already a narrative beginning to form about Foyth based on one error each game he's played. Toby and Jan make just as many errors, but they have the currency in the bank that Foyth doesn't. And because on ONE brilliant performance, Tanaganga has currency in his bank that has afforded him to get ripped apart in his 2nd game and still have the faith of fans (which is great and how it should be!!).

Both of these lads are fantastic. Both excite me even more in the sense that they have different styles and therefore could compliment each other well (I think that's been a reason why Toby & Jan have been so good, apart from in the air they compliment each other, one competent in bringing the ball out (Jan), the other pinging crossfield 60 yrd balls (Toby), one brilliant at 1v1's (Toby) the other positionally intelligent (Jan) to name just a few examples).
 
Agree.

However, just try this out for a second. Suppose Tanganga's first game was the game against Watford. There was a lot of people supporting his performance against Watford, which is great to see and makes a big difference than the usual ripping into young players we usually see. But at the end of the day, he spent 3/4's of that game getting ripped apart. The harsh reality.

Foyth has by and large always played well in every game for us when selected but there has been the one error in each that draws the attention from some. He has never been ripped apart the way Tanganga was against Watford (and he has been played out of position numerous times too). There is already a narrative beginning to form about Foyth based on one error each game he's played. Toby and Jan make just as many errors, but they have the currency in the bank that Foyth doesn't. And because on ONE brilliant performance, Tanaganga has currency in his bank that has afforded him to get ripped apart in his 2nd game and still have the faith of fans (which is great and how it should be!!).

Both of these lads are fantastic. Both excite me even more in the sense that they have different styles and therefore could compliment each other well (I think that's been a reason why Toby & Jan have been so good, apart from in the air they compliment each other, one competent in bringing the ball out (Jan), the other pinging crossfield 60 yrd balls (Toby), one brilliant at 1v1's (Toby) the other positionally intelligent (Jan) to name just a few examples).

Tanganga has played all his youth games at CB, both RCB and LCB, bar a handful at RB and I think a couple at LB (although I have seen WindyCOYS WindyCOYS say never at LB so I could be mistaken).

So with that in mind, to get a youngster play in a new position to him @ LB against Watford ( especially with what I think was a dodgy yellow card after 20 minutes so had to play 70 minutes with that hanging over him) was pretty good - Watford were undoubtedly targeting him yet he hung in there well. A very composed performance. And might I suggest that Watford's left forward was probably their fastest and best player coming into the match - so not conceding was a pretty good result.

In his other 2 games he's played CB/RB, and whilst I think Mourhino's idea was that he play RB as a defender and not get up the pitch, Tanganga's willingness and ability to get up the flank and put in decent crossses was a real bonus, the one catching the eye was in the 93rd minute when most other players looked a little fatigued.

Poch had trained Foyth to be a CB and then switched to training him as a RB, so I would guess Foyth had a lot more individual training to play at RB than Tanganga has had, and Tanganga cannot have had much time at all being prepared for the LB role, a couple of days at absolute maximum.

So I'd suggest the narrative should be that Tanganga had 2 good games against Liverpool and Boro, and took one for the team in agreeing to play LB as nobody else was available to play there.

Of course Tanganga is not the finished article and will make mistakes, but so far he's earned a lot of credit in the bank.

But if I take your point and think of Watford being Tanganga's first game where he is being played in a new position (LB) then comparing that to Foyth's actual first PL game at CB, a position he had been coached in by Poch for a couple of years) …... conceding 2 penalties is not helpful to Foyth's cause, so suggest you don't put that idea forward again !.

So as I say, I think Tanganga could be the one playing first team football whilst Foyth is loaned out - not sure both could play at Spurs in the 2nd half of the season - maybe to a lower PL side or any other decent side to get more minutes on the clock.

And BTW there are a couple of other youth CB's coming through, behind both Tanganga and Foyth, who should be loaned out - lengthy post in the youth thread a couple of days ago if you are interested,
 
Sure we are losing with Toby and Jan playing, but why would putting in even worse, inferior or inexperienced players improve the results?

It's just fan desperation.

Look at the performances Sanchez and Foyth have put in this year. Even worse than Jan and Toby.

I get your broader point in the case of the others lacking experience, but no way..... Sanchez has been our most consistent defender this season.
 
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