3-4-3

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tbonepremier

I wrote a little piece a few years back on how we should not just go with the flow and play 4-2-3-1 like every other team. That instead we should play a 3-back line, as a counter to 4-2-3-1, as copying other teams with better players won't put us ahead of them.

Poch proved me wrong. By working a talented squad very hard, he managed to apply the standard system to good effect, and overtake most others.

I still remained a fan of the 3-back line though, and eagerly awaited Conte's arrival at Chelsea. He dissapointed me, though, as he applied the 4-2-3-1 system in many of his first games. A dissapointment that it was easy to get over as Chelsea crashed with the system, and were only mostly lucky to get the points that they got. Now though, after some miserable defeats against Liverpool and Woolwich, he has returned to 3-4-3, with great success.

I firmly believe that 3-4-3 would fit us and our players about a trillion times better than the 4-1-4-1 we've tried lately (which I hold to be greatly responsible to our downturn in form), and also better than 4-2-3-1.

We have two absolutely fantastic CBs in Alderweireld and Vertonghen who have both succesfully played as full backs. We have a very athletic Dier, who does have some concentration issues as a CB, who would benefit from having two other CBs around him, and who have previously shown to have qualities as a RB. We have two great, young benched CBs who seem ready to play a part in the team, in Wimmer and CCV. All the five mentioned are also good on the ball. And we have Davies, who've played some great games for Wales as a LCB in a 3-back line, and who is a good LB. They would all fit very well in a 3-4-3, at least some (Dier and Davies in particular) better than in a 4-back line.

Walker and Rose are great wing backs. We are at our best when they are involved when we go forwards. The same goes for Trippier. Davies could also do a good job as a wide man in 3-4-3.

In a 3-4-3 the CM players will be more involved going forwards than in a 4-2-3-1. I'm not certain how that would affect Wanyama, but he seems decent on the ball and may end up being a bit more adventorous in such a role, and slow us down less. The CM role is less restrictive and less demanding defensively. It would most likely give Alli more room to shine. He is, imo not a AM in 4-2-3-1 nor a DM in that system. He would fit better in the 3-4-3. I also think that Dembele would do well, although he couldn't possibly be better than he was last season. Furthermore, as it is less demanding defensively, I think it would fit players like Carroll, Winks, Eriksen and Mason (Yes, I know he's gone) better. And Sissoko.

Going forwards, I think the three offensive roles would offer both more freedom and more support than 4-2-3-1, and definately more than the horrid 4-1-4-1. I think that might suit Lamela (who I am always wrong about though), and I'm sure it would suit Son. It would let us better exploit Son's pace without him being our striker.

I truly believe that a 3-4-3 would get more out of our squad.

Pref lineup:
Lloris
Dier, Alderweireld, Vertonghen
Walker, Alli, Dembele, Rose
Son, Kane, Eriksen

Players for positions:
RCB: (Walker), Alder, Dier, CCV
CB: Dier, Alder, Wimmer, (Vert, CCV)
LCB: Vert, Wimmer, Davies
RM: Walker, Trippier, Sissoko, (Dier)
CM: Alli, Dembele, Sissoko, Wanyama, Winks, Carroll, (Eriksen, Onomah)
Att: Lamela, Eriksen, Alli, Son (Dembele, Onomah, Edwards, N'Koudou)
Strikers: Kane, Janssen (Son)
 
I think it requires a coach who is confident using that system. Conte has done so for years and in Italy 3 at the back has been widely used in the last decade. Poch has a preferred system and he's got some flexibility but that doesn't extend to 3 at the back and the other role changes you identify.
Good points made though and cunte has a good track record with that formation.
 
El flaco said:
I think it requires a coach who is confident using that system. Conte has done so for years and in Italy 3 at the back has been widely used in the last decade. Poch has a preferred system and he's got some flexibility but that doesn't extend to 3 at the back and the other role changes you identify.
Good points made though and cunte has a good track record with that formation.
Click to expand...

It is probably a great advantage with a coach that has succesfully applied the system previously, as you say. I would just comment, though, that Poch's mentor (afaik) is Bielsa, who is known for 3-4-3, and also that it seemed we played some version of a 3-back line a couple of times last season with Dier dropping very deep (at least one of the Watford games).

I do not expect to see it, but keeping my fingers crossed that Conte's recent success might inspire us to try.
 
tbonepremier said:
I wrote a little piece a few years back on how we should not just go with the flow and play 4-2-3-1 like every other team. That instead we should play a 3-back line, as a counter to 4-2-3-1, as copying other teams with better players won't put us ahead of them.

Poch proved me wrong. By working a talented squad very hard, he managed to apply the standard system to good effect, and overtake most others.

I still remained a fan of the 3-back line though, and eagerly awaited Conte's arrival at Chelsea. He dissapointed me, though, as he applied the 4-2-3-1 system in many of his first games. A dissapointment that it was easy to get over as Chelsea crashed with the system, and were only mostly lucky to get the points that they got. Now though, after some miserable defeats against Liverpool and Woolwich, he has returned to 3-4-3, with great success.

I firmly believe that 3-4-3 would fit us and our players about a trillion times better than the 4-1-4-1 we've tried lately (which I hold to be greatly responsible to our downturn in form), and also better than 4-2-3-1.

We have two absolutely fantastic CBs in Alderweireld and Vertonghen who have both succesfully played as full backs. We have a very athletic Dier, who does have some concentration issues as a CB, who would benefit from having two other CBs around him, and who have previously shown to have qualities as a RB. We have two great, young benched CBs who seem ready to play a part in the team, in Wimmer and CCV. All the five mentioned are also good on the ball. And we have Davies, who've played some great games for Wales as a LCB in a 3-back line, and who is a good LB. They would all fit very well in a 3-4-3, at least some (Dier and Davies in particular) better than in a 4-back line.

Walker and Rose are great wing backs. We are at our best when they are involved when we go forwards. The same goes for Trippier. Davies could also do a good job as a wide man in 3-4-3.

In a 3-4-3 the CM players will be more involved going forwards than in a 4-2-3-1. I'm not certain how that would affect Wanyama, but he seems decent on the ball and may end up being a bit more adventorous in such a role, and slow us down less. The CM role is less restrictive and less demanding defensively. It would most likely give Alli more room to shine. He is, imo not a AM in 4-2-3-1 nor a DM in that system. He would fit better in the 3-4-3. I also think that Dembele would do well, although he couldn't possibly be better than he was last season. Furthermore, as it is less demanding defensively, I think it would fit players like Carroll, Winks, Eriksen and Mason (Yes, I know he's gone) better. And Sissoko.

Going forwards, I think the three offensive roles would offer both more freedom and more support than 4-2-3-1, and definately more than the horrid 4-1-4-1. I think that might suit Lamela (who I am always wrong about though), and I'm sure it would suit Son. It would let us better exploit Son's pace without him being our striker.

I truly believe that a 3-4-3 would get more out of our squad.

Pref lineup:
Lloris
Dier, Alderweireld, Vertonghen
Walker, Alli, Dembele, Rose
Son, Kane, Eriksen

Players for positions:
RCB: (Walker), Alder, Dier, CCV
CB: Dier, Alder, Wimmer, (Vert, CCV)
LCB: Vert, Wimmer, Davies
RM: Walker, Trippier, Sissoko, (Dier)
CM: Alli, Dembele, Sissoko, Wanyama, Winks, Carroll, (Eriksen, Onomah)
Att: Lamela, Eriksen, Alli, Son (Dembele, Onomah, Edwards, N'Koudou)
Strikers: Kane, Janssen (Son)
Click to expand...
Whatever the formation, being rigid is the problem.
We do play 3 at the back when both FBs go forward. We also play a back 4 or 5 depending how the other team come at us-leaving players forward/wide. We mustn't get fixated with rigid formations, where today, games need tactical flexibility, rotation-players being allowed to adjust their position if they feel it necessary. Yes, some are given forward status or defensive duties or specific tasks and will start in a formation but will adjust to the game as required. I feel lately, (guessing the reason for this thread) we are looking flat, is because the players are not expressing themselves, their talent . When on form, you trust your instinct and play without fear, when pressures creep in with poor results, players stop making those trusting runs that open up games, stop using their instinct and resort to ridged formation, keeping to form. This is why we have lost our flair of late. IMHO
 
We are not fixed to a formation. We play 3 at the back when in possession of the ball every single game (CB's split DM drops between them, FB's push up often they are furthest forward player). Without the ball we play 4 at the back.
 
The fact that players move from their positions does not mean that the formations does not say anything about how we play or where the players position themselves. There are clear as day differences between how we move going forwards when in the 4-1-4-1 compared to the 4-2-3-1.

I agree that it may be more important and informative to talk about roles, but it would make for a far more complex discussion.

I think that there can be no doubt though, that the role Dier had in most games last year greatly differs from that of Luiz as Chelsea's third CB now, despite Dier dropping deep to get the ball at times. The average positions would look very different.
 
Lamela would be outstanding in the formation we played today. Playing centrally and working like a mad man.
 
Tomo said:
Thought we played 3-5-2 today not 3-4-3? Still it's a change.
Click to expand...
I'd go further and say it was 3-4-1-2
thick-hair-problems-rihanna.gif
 
Tomo said:
Thought we played 3-5-2 today not 3-4-3? Still it's a change.
Click to expand...
Fair play though, thread about a formation change to 3 at the back and the manager has the stones to implement it for the NLD of all games. Like most I had to read the team sheet twice when it came out.

We scored both the goals in the game and Ozil and Sanchez yet again were muzzled. So I'd say the tweak in system was quite a good calculated gamble by Poch.
 
We absolutely bossed it in the 3-4-3 today. We have the players for it. It means we can play Dier, Wanyama and Dembele in the same team. Rose and Walker have more license to get forward. Lamela/Eriksen/Son aren't proper wingers and playing as a front 3 will play to their strengths. The only glitch I can see is where Alli fits in. But then that's the beauty of the players we have. Allows us for flexibility.
 
Do we have a formation code for 3 at the back?

I would say it was like this
9h18j6.png

But Eriksen and Son were moving everywhere and interchanging a lot, so much movement Woolwich couldn't handle it at times, this is how we should play particularly at home against teams who park the bus.
 
AussieYiddo said:
Do we have a formation code for 3 at the back?

I would say it was like this
9h18j6.png

But Eriksen and Son were moving everywhere and interchanging a lot, so much movement Woolwich couldn't handle it at times, this is how we should play particularly at home against teams who park the bus.
Click to expand...
Looks sort of like the 3-4-2-1 that Poch used against Watford last season.
 
I loved seeing us play in what I felt was a 3 - 4 - 1 - 2 and I believe that we could really excel in that formation, especially when we get the likes of Toby back in the team for Wimmer, who I didn't feel played badly.

I'd love to see the likes of Lamela or Alli given a chance to partner Kane up front as well. Alli practically did it last year and Lamela's movement is hugely underrated. This could be an exciting change for the club and one that sees us being a much more difficult team to figure out. I used to love this style of formation when Juve played it, only they had the 1 in DM as opposed to CAM.
 
Formations are all smoke and mirrors. 3-5-2...3-6-1....4-5-1....3-3-4.....our formation adapted with phases in the game. Playing 3 CBs which we always seem to do, one may sit in front but yesterday all played level. FBs (wing backs) is the correct term (they always play this way maybe a little more dfensive). 2 defensive MF (with one pushing forward) and the rest ran around alot finding space and getting involved ?, which again they always do.

it worked so looked good and all are wishing its the new way forward. I feel we have always 6s played this way.
 
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