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I wish someone had let the club know that.....


Tottenham manager Mauricio Pochettino is targeting a top-four finish in the Premier League this season, according to Nabil Bentaleb.

Former manager Harry Redknapp twice led Tottenham to fourth place, in 2009-10 and 2011-12, but since his departure the club have only managed sixth and fifth.

Chairman Daniel Levy is thought to be desperate to see the return of Champions League football at White Hart Lane and Pochettino has told his players that nothing less than fourth place will do.

Bentaleb also revealed that Pochettino has taken a new-found interest in the Europa League - in which Tottenham face Besiktas on Thursday evening - now that winning the second-tier competition brings qualification for the Champions League.

"We have targets, in the league it's getting top four, in the Europa League it's to go as far as we can to win it," Bentaleb said. "[Pochettino] came and he showed some great confidence. He told us that we could do something and we all think and believe we can achieve something in both.
October 2014


“We are just two points off the top four,” said Eriksen, who scored in last weekend’s 2-1 win over Hull City.

“The route to the Champions League by winning the Europa Leagueis shorter but more difficult.

“The top four is definitely possible. When you see the teams who should normally be in the top six nowhere near, you realise everything can change and that the league is so tight.”
Nov 2014


Tottenham Hotspur manager Mauricio Pochettino is confident that his side can finish in the top four of the Premier League this season.

Spurs are currently 10th in the league table with 21 points from 15 matches, seven points behind fourth-placed West Ham United but with a game in hand.

“I believe that is possible because so far, so good,” The Daily Mail quotes Pochettino as saying. "I think that the team arrive in a very condition, physically and mentally. They are ready to compete now in this very, very busy period.

“It is important to arrive with all the players fit and ready to compete because maybe you play now a lot of games and you need the whole squad. Yes, we are very close but we need to be consistent. It is true.”
Dec 2014


"Making the top four is going to be difficult but we have seven games to go.
"We will try, of course we will. But it is true that it is not going to be easy. I don't know how many points we will need.
"But we need to try to win the next game. We need to win the most points that we possibly can in the next seven remaining games.
Poch April 2015
Stop being a knob. I thought you were a decent poster rather than trying to be a face. You contradict your own posts over every thread. It's quite odd. Sammy... What do you want other than to upset everyone on this forum? If I had enough time in my life I could pull you up on each & every contradictory post you make. You like to think you are clever. The truth is you recycle old arguments to suit your current gripe. Everyone on this forum sees what a cunt you are. Go play with your Swedish ladies
 
You what mate?

Look, at the start of every season, we all hope we can win the league, but none of us say it. We want the champions league, because thats the next step up from where we are, but we doubt we'll get it. We'll accept the europa league, because that means we're keeping competitive.
The manager can't then come out and say "well as long as we finish in the top half we're happy"
No, the players would be fuming "is that all we're good for gaffer???"
He needs to say the right things. He needs to believe in the team. If the manager doesnt believe in the team then we need to pack up because its game over right there.

But Sammy is using that as a stick to beat him with ?? this is what i mean. No fucking rousing support. No "Our manager believes so i believe"
Just "this idiot says we'll get champions league? PAH!!"

We look like mugs to the rest of the world. And tbh I'm not particularly that bothered about other peoples perceptions of me, or us as a fan group. But i have to say, hearing fucking leicester fans, and west from fans, mugging US off! calling us deluded cunts! That fucking hurts me. But they're right, there are some fucking mongs in the fan base. And they make us look like dicks. Cant fucking tolerate the odd bad season, expect us to be challenging for the league every year, because "we're tottenham"
Fucking bollock. Next season will be 55 years since we won the fucking league.

Can't agree more that we won't be challenging for the league but I don't accept we shouldn't be aiming for top four given that we've been 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th, then had a car crash rather than a re-build to come 6th and rebuilding yet again to come 6th-8th. We have a net spend of fuck all in 5yrs and, while money doesn't guarantee success, plenty of excuse makers then say that because of money we can only be 6th. We have had 3 managers in 2 seasons. AVB was a clown whereas Poch needs lots of time to make all the players gel and should get his own players because the magnificent 7 are shit, the same players that were only 3months at the club when AVB got the boot. Poch has a young squad; the best youngsters are those that Tim threw in. Before you start, I never wanted AVB and it was right he went, always going to happen. Sherwood, I don't hate him as much as some do, he said things as it was sometimes and at least he cared. People even blamed him for the tear up with that twat at Benfica when he'd behaved like a prick to Sherwood right in his face. Maybe some guts and grit might've translated to players eventually, something we've been short of almost forever. Who knows, don't think it would've worked out but again, being so inexperienced at that level wasn't his fault.

It's all bollocks if you ask me, a myriad of fuck ups but ultimately, I'm going to call it as I see it. Yes Poch needs time because we can't keep changing managers forever but, he may still be shit, just means this time we have to stick with a shit manager for longer to hopefully see improvement because we haven't tried anything else that's worked. In the meantime, I'm not going to pretend I've been entertained more than I have or, make excuses for what seem bizarre selections or substitutions. I'll blame players for being shit, Chiriches, but the shape they're set up in, the confusion they seem to display, the fatigue, the 4th worst defence in the league.....after 55 games and two transfer windows I'll ask questions about a very unproven manager. It's not enough time yet but it's not just a few weeks.

If you have our relatively recent track record and you're our manager spouting off about top 4, then it's not acceptable that it's all just flannel to keep a few players sweet.
 
Can't agree more that we won't be challenging for the league but I don't accept we shouldn't be aiming for top four given that we've been 4th, 5th, 4th, 5th, then had a car crash rather than a re-build to come 6th and rebuilding yet again to come 6th-8th. We have a net spend of fuck all in 5yrs and, while money doesn't guarantee success, plenty of excuse makers then say that because of money we can only be 6th. We have had 3 managers in 2 seasons. AVB was a clown whereas Poch needs lots of time to make all the players gel and should get his own players because the magnificent 7 are shit, the same players that were only 3months at the club when AVB got the boot. Poch has a young squad; the best youngsters are those that Tim threw in. Before you start, I never wanted AVB and it was right he went, always going to happen. Sherwood, I don't hate him as much as some do, he said things as it was sometimes and at least he cared. People even blamed him for the tear up with that twat at Benfica when he'd behaved like a prick to Sherwood right in his face. Maybe some guts and grit might've translated to players eventually, something we've been short of almost forever. Who knows, don't think it would've worked out but again, being so inexperienced at that level wasn't his fault.

It's all bollocks if you ask me, a myriad of fuck ups but ultimately, I'm going to call it as I see it. Yes Poch needs time because we can't keep changing managers forever but, he may still be shit, just means this time we have to stick with a shit manager for longer to hopefully see improvement because we haven't tried anything else that's worked. In the meantime, I'm not going to pretend I've been entertained more than I have or, make excuses for what seem bizarre selections or substitutions. I'll blame players for being shit, Chiriches, but the shape they're set up in, the confusion they seem to display, the fatigue, the 4th worst defence in the league.....after 55 games and two transfer windows I'll ask questions about a very unproven manager. It's not enough time yet but it's not just a few weeks.

If you have our relatively recent track record and you're our manager spouting off about top 4, then it's not acceptable that it's all just flannel to keep a few players sweet.
The thing is though, for a lot of reasons, 6th is our level. If you think about it, us finishing 4th and 5th wasn't entirely because of how good we are. It took liverpool dropping out of the top 4, united turning shit, chelsea having a shit season, etc.

The fact we are 6th, is kinda good and bad. That we've managed to get par for the course, despite a less than ideal season means depending on how you look at your glass of water, is either a positive (we can improve next season and do even better) or a negative (had we done better this season we'd be even higher now)
Im a positive person myself.
 
Personally, I'm not disappointed with 6th (btw we haven't finished 6th yet, could still finish 8th behind fucking Swansea), I'm disappointed with how limply we've finished 6th. Liverpool are awful and while I don't expect us to challenge United this season we should've at least looked like we could've done. I get burnout is an excuse when we've had such a strenuous fixture list, but the burnout stems from half the squad being alienated for reasons I just don't know. We're now at a point where we've had one very good performance in the last three months since beating Woolwich, and that was against a Newcastle side that have a fucking punchline for a manager. It's the performances underlying the results that concern me - and often the results are shit too. I reiterate that we would be fucking daft not to give Poch a second season, but I'm really struggling for reasons that would indicate we're likely to improve. With a collection of international defenders and one of the best goalkeepers in the world, we've conceded more goals than Hull, Sunderland, Villa, Palace, West Brom and the same as Burnley.
 
Stop being a knob. I thought you were a decent poster rather than trying to be a face. You contradict your own posts over every thread. It's quite odd. Sammy... What do you want other than to upset everyone on this forum? If I had enough time in my life I could pull you up on each & every contradictory post you make. You like to think you are clever. The truth is you recycle old arguments to suit your current gripe. Everyone on this forum sees what a cunt you are. Go play with your Swedish ladies

Whats that got to do with top 4 being our target?

:dier:
 
If you have our relatively recent track record and you're our manager spouting off about top 4, then it's not acceptable that it's all just flannel to keep a few players sweet.

Exactly. Its just yet another excuse to cover our failure.

Next year, if we fail, I suppose he was "just saying it" again.....pathetic argument.


When I have questioned his formations and tactics, somone responded with "so you think you know more than Poch" and "I trust the professional football manager".

But now they berate me for "believing the manager"....and they magically know for a fact that top 4 wasnt his target, and that he was only saying it, but he didnt mean it.
 
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Go play with your Swedish ladies

?

510.11.jpg
 
If we finished 6th he did ok, nothing more or less, it respects the financial situation in the league and as such he achieved what was to be expected.

The manner in which he did that has been really disappointing for a while now but its not all doom and gloom. If we were finishing fourth that would be overachieving but even that isnt really glorious is it. We are at our level, i hope people start to realize that. Once you get that idea of top 4 out of your head, you might actually start enjoying football again (not that i am enjoying it atm)
 
The thing is though, for a lot of reasons, 6th is our level. If you think about it, us finishing 4th and 5th wasn't entirely because of how good we are. It took liverpool dropping out of the top 4, united turning shit, chelsea having a shit season, etc.


Not having that.

We were above Liverpool and Woolwich in February (and a point behind united).

8th place is now looming on the horizon ..... Now that's progress.

Imagine how good Southampton will be next season when their manager has had a season in charge, new signings etc blah blah blah..
 
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The thing is though, for a lot of reasons, 6th is our level. If you think about it, us finishing 4th and 5th wasn't entirely because of how good we are. It took liverpool dropping out of the top 4, united turning shit, chelsea having a shit season, etc.

The fact we are 6th, is kinda good and bad. That we've managed to get par for the course, despite a less than ideal season means depending on how you look at your glass of water, is either a positive (we can improve next season and do even better) or a negative (had we done better this season we'd be even higher now)
Im a positive person myself.

I agree but football isn't played on the balance sheet. We were still 6th last year after a horrendous year, for some reason there is a big debate about whether 6th again is now progress. We'd just lost Bale, plenty of players were in year one, two managers etc. I'd say the manner of where we finish this year has been questionable as well. A lot of shit football, months of mostly poor form since Feb, several question marks over coach and players. We're all writing this year off and we are where we are, I think Poch needs to deliver more consistent performances very early 2015/16 or he's not cutting it. That doesn't mean he needs to be 4th, but I don't expect the worst defence in the league unless we were winning loads of games 3-2 and drawing a few 3-3 with the odd loss here and there obviously.
 
I agree but football isn't played on the balance sheet. We were still 6th last year after a horrendous year, for some reason there is a big debate about whether 6th again is now progress. We'd just lost Bale, plenty of players were in year one, two managers etc. I'd say the manner of where we finish this year has been questionable as well. A lot of shit football, months of mostly poor form since Feb, several question marks over coach and players. We're all writing this year off and we are where we are, I think Poch needs to deliver more consistent performances very early 2015/16 or he's not cutting it. That doesn't mean he needs to be 4th, but I don't expect the worst defence in the league unless we were winning loads of games 3-2 and drawing a few 3-3 with the odd loss here and there obviously.




Still have to give him minimum end of Jan unless we are truly fucked.

Personally don't see it as for all his faults. He's a bloody good coach. Those players will be in optimont fitness come the first game in the league. After the Europer qualifier and the match against the MLS Allstars. Plus they will have handy air miles to offset any future euro games. Everyone a winner.
 
If Poch is already proven to be good, then the following should be world class.

Pulis - Lead 2 different clubs to escape relegation in 2 years.

Pardew - Same as above, especially when Newcastle is still relying on his points won for survival.

Last but not least, the 2nd most inexperienced manager in the league Tim Sherwood, if he wins the FA cup.
 
One of those times when stats and "real life" tell the same story..and it's not very encouraging:

http://statsbomb.com/2015/05/holes-in-tottenham-bloody-hull-and-dont-fear-the-numbers/

Holes in Tottenham, Bloody Hull And Don’t Fear the Numbers

Holes in Tottenham

It was quite predictable that Stoke, a team with a reputation for tough play, should be able to roll over a typically soft-centered Tottenham side and so they did. Usually, I might just point out a few issues surrounding the dismal performance and proffer a positive solution but this week happens to coincide with a bit of research I carried out which paints a dismal picture of where Tottenham are with regard their inability to prevent chances. Amongst analytic types, this is not a new theory, i’m reminded of Colin Trainor andPaul Riley respectively highlighting and dryly remonstrating with Tottenham’s defensive issues. This plight has been a bit of an elephant in my room: I knew it was there, but tried to ignore it. Hugo Lloris has had a great season? Well, you only get that kind of swift analysis when a keeper is busy, and he sure has been.

I’m not normally drawn to location work but I’ve had a look at shooting rates inside and outside the box. This is a simple yet reasonable proxy for identifying teams that create “good chances” and has proven revealing, the in-box stuff also slightly improves on overall shot ratio with regard predictability, at least for this season. Here are the in-box shot ratios (up to May 8th):


Quickly we can identify six of the top seven clubs occupying the top six slots, which makes perfect sense. As with overall shot ratios, Man City and Liverpool look better here than their league performances indicate; their problems have to a degree revolved around conversion. Tottenham, in contrast a team that has ridden fairly high for conversion has a serious problem here. A 44% shot ratio inside the box is incredibly bad, it pegs them as being as capable of creating chances in the box at the same rate as relegation candidates. Indeed the raw numbers show that they have conceded about as many shots here as Burnley, Leicester and West Ham, with only QPR significantly exceeding that total. These are not the hallmarks of a top side.

Overall, Tottenham’s shot ratios have declined year on year, and their overall TSR of 52% is the worst they have recorded in the enlightened era (2009-10 onwards). It is actually 7% worse than Pochettino achieved with Southampton last season and is ironically, identical to Stoke’s TSR, a team that whilst widely deemed inferior, has now beaten Tottenham twice.

Andre Villas Boas was regularly castigated by fans who believed that his brand of football was sterile and non-creative. He was criticised for encouraging long range shooting and passing for the sake of passing, so apropos of nothing, here are the out-of-box shot ratios for Pochettino’s Tottenham, a team that also ranks 3rd in the league for possession:


Tottenham take a high percentage of their shots from range and struggle to create opportunities inside the box. Defensively they have failed to limit the opposition’s ability to enter the box and take shots from within. In isolation topping a shot chart might seem good, but when wedded to failing in a more important chart, it is alarming.

The similarities with the Villas Boas era are clear, as are the intransigence and the squad issues. The differences too: there is no shot dominance in 2014-15. I’m inclined to believe that the primary reason for this is systemic. On the front end, Kane is somewhat isolated in the 4-2-3-1 system and can lack support at times. In defense, the porous central midfield has been a common concern with attention slowly turning to the entire defensive unit. And the recent collapse in form is easily attributed to tiredness and a lack of rotation, but perhaps also to chickens coming home to roost? The narrow victories that characterised the mid-season have given way to draws and defeats, an inevitable by-product of a lack of dominance. Michael Caley wrote on this point last season with a case study on er… Tottenham. Both Villas Boas and Pochettino arrived with reputations as prescriptive and detailed coaches wedded to their systems and methods. Each has suffered with implementation and struggled to consistently succeed with their concepts in actual games.

That this season would be one of transition was never in doubt, and that in itself is nothing new but too many aspects of performance are currently in the bin, so much so that I would propose that improvement both underlying and in general will be a mandatory requirement set at board level next year. Any post-season performance analysis that churns out nuggets like these would likely kill off most Tottenham coaches:

  • Tottenham (53) have conceded more goals that Sunderland (50) and Hull (49) and the same amount as Burnley.
  • Tottenham (12) have lost only one fewer game than Sunderland (13)
  • They have now conceded more shots on target (169) than they have taken (166)
  • They rank 19th/20 for opposition conversion rates, no doubt powered by all those in box shots.
Under Redknapp and in Villas Boas’ initial season, Tottenham punched above their weight and took advantage particularly of Liverpool’s wobbles to regularly finish 4th or 5th. However, during this time the team’s play consistently projected to be that good. What is most concerning now is that the projections start at 7th and could arguably be lower. There is a new team in charge of recruitment and a commitment to finding players in a younger bracket and developing them, much like with Bale or Modric, has been mooted. These are admirable policies but alongside this, the £100m splurge off the back of Bale’s departure seems to be held up as a mistake. I’d argue the error wasn’t in the intention but more the execution. To have any chance of challenging for top four places once more, a mix of promise and fully realised quality is necessary, otherwise 5th to 7th is the long term. It will soon be transfer season, the sale boards are up and the toughest negotiator in town has plenty to do. Rumours persist about higher level players departing and new blood is sorely required. Once more, expectations around Tottenham have had to be tempered. Improvement is required but this time it will be starting from a lower base than usual.

- See more at: http://statsbomb.com/2015/05/holes-...ar-the-numbers/#sthash.ebN8plj7.zjybNEIB.dpuf
 
If Poch is already proven to be good, then the following should be world class.

Pulis - Lead 2 different clubs to escape relegation in 2 years.

Pardew - Same as above, especially when Newcastle is still relying on his points won for survival.

Last but not least, the 2nd most inexperienced manager in the league Tim Sherwood, if he wins the FA cup.

Plenty of people have put getting to the League Cup Final as a plus on Poch's CV so, Timmy getting Villa safe and getting them to the FA cup final must count for plenty, even if they are pretty much rolled over?

Touch paper lit......stands back......laughs.....
 
One of those times when stats and "real life" tell the same story..and it's not very encouraging:

http://statsbomb.com/2015/05/holes-in-tottenham-bloody-hull-and-dont-fear-the-numbers/

Holes in Tottenham, Bloody Hull And Don’t Fear the Numbers

Holes in Tottenham

It was quite predictable that Stoke, a team with a reputation for tough play, should be able to roll over a typically soft-centered Tottenham side and so they did. Usually, I might just point out a few issues surrounding the dismal performance and proffer a positive solution but this week happens to coincide with a bit of research I carried out which paints a dismal picture of where Tottenham are with regard their inability to prevent chances. Amongst analytic types, this is not a new theory, i’m reminded of Colin Trainor andPaul Riley respectively highlighting and dryly remonstrating with Tottenham’s defensive issues. This plight has been a bit of an elephant in my room: I knew it was there, but tried to ignore it. Hugo Lloris has had a great season? Well, you only get that kind of swift analysis when a keeper is busy, and he sure has been.

I’m not normally drawn to location work but I’ve had a look at shooting rates inside and outside the box. This is a simple yet reasonable proxy for identifying teams that create “good chances” and has proven revealing, the in-box stuff also slightly improves on overall shot ratio with regard predictability, at least for this season. Here are the in-box shot ratios (up to May 8th):


Quickly we can identify six of the top seven clubs occupying the top six slots, which makes perfect sense. As with overall shot ratios, Man City and Liverpool look better here than their league performances indicate; their problems have to a degree revolved around conversion. Tottenham, in contrast a team that has ridden fairly high for conversion has a serious problem here. A 44% shot ratio inside the box is incredibly bad, it pegs them as being as capable of creating chances in the box at the same rate as relegation candidates. Indeed the raw numbers show that they have conceded about as many shots here as Burnley, Leicester and West Ham, with only QPR significantly exceeding that total. These are not the hallmarks of a top side.

Overall, Tottenham’s shot ratios have declined year on year, and their overall TSR of 52% is the worst they have recorded in the enlightened era (2009-10 onwards). It is actually 7% worse than Pochettino achieved with Southampton last season and is ironically, identical to Stoke’s TSR, a team that whilst widely deemed inferior, has now beaten Tottenham twice.

Andre Villas Boas was regularly castigated by fans who believed that his brand of football was sterile and non-creative. He was criticised for encouraging long range shooting and passing for the sake of passing, so apropos of nothing, here are the out-of-box shot ratios for Pochettino’s Tottenham, a team that also ranks 3rd in the league for possession:


Tottenham take a high percentage of their shots from range and struggle to create opportunities inside the box. Defensively they have failed to limit the opposition’s ability to enter the box and take shots from within. In isolation topping a shot chart might seem good, but when wedded to failing in a more important chart, it is alarming.

The similarities with the Villas Boas era are clear, as are the intransigence and the squad issues. The differences too: there is no shot dominance in 2014-15. I’m inclined to believe that the primary reason for this is systemic. On the front end, Kane is somewhat isolated in the 4-2-3-1 system and can lack support at times. In defense, the porous central midfield has been a common concern with attention slowly turning to the entire defensive unit. And the recent collapse in form is easily attributed to tiredness and a lack of rotation, but perhaps also to chickens coming home to roost? The narrow victories that characterised the mid-season have given way to draws and defeats, an inevitable by-product of a lack of dominance. Michael Caley wrote on this point last season with a case study on er… Tottenham. Both Villas Boas and Pochettino arrived with reputations as prescriptive and detailed coaches wedded to their systems and methods. Each has suffered with implementation and struggled to consistently succeed with their concepts in actual games.

That this season would be one of transition was never in doubt, and that in itself is nothing new but too many aspects of performance are currently in the bin, so much so that I would propose that improvement both underlying and in general will be a mandatory requirement set at board level next year. Any post-season performance analysis that churns out nuggets like these would likely kill off most Tottenham coaches:

  • Tottenham (53) have conceded more goals that Sunderland (50) and Hull (49) and the same amount as Burnley.
  • Tottenham (12) have lost only one fewer game than Sunderland (13)
  • They have now conceded more shots on target (169) than they have taken (166)
  • They rank 19th/20 for opposition conversion rates, no doubt powered by all those in box shots.
Under Redknapp and in Villas Boas’ initial season, Tottenham punched above their weight and took advantage particularly of Liverpool’s wobbles to regularly finish 4th or 5th. However, during this time the team’s play consistently projected to be that good. What is most concerning now is that the projections start at 7th and could arguably be lower. There is a new team in charge of recruitment and a commitment to finding players in a younger bracket and developing them, much like with Bale or Modric, has been mooted. These are admirable policies but alongside this, the £100m splurge off the back of Bale’s departure seems to be held up as a mistake. I’d argue the error wasn’t in the intention but more the execution. To have any chance of challenging for top four places once more, a mix of promise and fully realised quality is necessary, otherwise 5th to 7th is the long term. It will soon be transfer season, the sale boards are up and the toughest negotiator in town has plenty to do. Rumours persist about higher level players departing and new blood is sorely required. Once more, expectations around Tottenham have had to be tempered. Improvement is required but this time it will be starting from a lower base than usual.

- See more at: http://statsbomb.com/2015/05/holes-...ar-the-numbers/#sthash.ebN8plj7.zjybNEIB.dpuf

Apparently none of this true

:memeokay:
 
Plenty of people have put getting to the League Cup Final as a plus on Poch's CV so, Timmy getting Villa safe and getting them to the FA cup final must count for plenty, even if they are pretty much rolled over?

Touch paper lit......stands back......laughs.....
Fa cup final, champions league final, whatever. Doesn't matter if he wins the Quadruple, it doesnt stop him being an unbearable cunt.
 
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