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CJJ
He doesn't answer the one's he can't - he just digresses into some nonsensical chatter amongst himself to try to dazzle and confuse.Case in point -
A simple assumption based on what Gibbs was saying...
Still not sure what this means, but he responds with someone else's post...
So I return to my original point. Gibbs is not concerned about HG players because he feels he can compete on all front with a 17 man NHG squad, Bentaleb, Kane, Fryers (the 20-man squad I referred to previously) + youth team players that qualify as HG.
I think that's the point he's trying to make, anyway.
Either way, our squad this season just gone (13/14) worked in that exact same way:
http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2013-14/sep/premier-league-squad-lists-201314.html
25 squad players
Player (Home Grown)
Adebayor, Emmanuel (No)
Capoue, Etienne (No)
Chadli, Nacer (No)
Chiriches, Vlad Iulian (No)
Dembele, Moussa (No)
Friedel, Bradley Howard (No)
Holtby, Lewis Harry (No)
Kaboul, Younes (No)
Lloris, Hugo (No)
Bezerra Maciel Junior, Jose Paulo (No)
Cordiero, Sandro Raniere Guimaraes (No)
Soldado Rillo, Roberto (No)
Vertonghen, Jan (No)
Gomes, Heurelho Da Silva (No)
Dawson, Michael Richard (Yes)
Defoe, Jermain Colin (Yes)
Lennon, Aaron (Yes)
Naughton, Kyle (Yes)
Obika, Jonathan (Yes)
Rose, Daniel Lee (Yes)
Sigurdsson, Gylfi Thor (Yes)
Townsend, Andros (Yes)
Walker, Kyle Andrew (Yes)
Dawkins, Simon (Yes)
As you can see, we padded out the squad with Obika and Dawkins, but didn't use them. There's a few more players that were U21 but now require registration, and yet with all of that we still struggled like fuck with injuries to defence and midfield.
Some of it was bad luck, but squad depth shouldn't be underestimated with 4 competitions on the go.
I mean, think how much easier it would have been in Lisbon (due to PL injuries), or in a few of the PL matches if we had (for example) two extra first teamers in place of Obika and Dawkins; we had room for non-HG, but the point here is thats 23 first teamers and it still wasn't enough.
For me, 25 first teamers in the PL Squad is essential.
http://www.premierleague.com/en-gb/news/news/2013-14/sep/premier-league-squad-lists-201314.html
25 squad players
Player (Home Grown)
Adebayor, Emmanuel (No)
Capoue, Etienne (No)
Chadli, Nacer (No)
Chiriches, Vlad Iulian (No)
Dembele, Moussa (No)
Friedel, Bradley Howard (No)
Holtby, Lewis Harry (No)
Kaboul, Younes (No)
Lloris, Hugo (No)
Bezerra Maciel Junior, Jose Paulo (No)
Cordiero, Sandro Raniere Guimaraes (No)
Soldado Rillo, Roberto (No)
Vertonghen, Jan (No)
Gomes, Heurelho Da Silva (No)
Dawson, Michael Richard (Yes)
Defoe, Jermain Colin (Yes)
Lennon, Aaron (Yes)
Naughton, Kyle (Yes)
Obika, Jonathan (Yes)
Rose, Daniel Lee (Yes)
Sigurdsson, Gylfi Thor (Yes)
Townsend, Andros (Yes)
Walker, Kyle Andrew (Yes)
Dawkins, Simon (Yes)
As you can see, we padded out the squad with Obika and Dawkins, but didn't use them. There's a few more players that were U21 but now require registration, and yet with all of that we still struggled like fuck with injuries to defence and midfield.
Some of it was bad luck, but squad depth shouldn't be underestimated with 4 competitions on the go.
I mean, think how much easier it would have been in Lisbon (due to PL injuries), or in a few of the PL matches if we had (for example) two extra first teamers in place of Obika and Dawkins; we had room for non-HG, but the point here is thats 23 first teamers and it still wasn't enough.
For me, 25 first teamers in the PL Squad is essential.
I agree with your main point there
CJJ
, but I think at the point of 25 registered (meaning all above 21 of course) and fully able-to-contribute players you run the risk of cordoning off vital opportunities for youth. It seems to me that many of our problems last year dealing with injuries that you correctly point out, were only compounded by some of the selections we let go out on loan last season as well as the fact that Sherwood preferred a two-man central midfield. I know Holtby wanted more playing time, but we shouldn't have allowed it given what we knew about Dembele and Sandro's respective fitnesses, as well as the fact that at the time Paulinho was still knackered because of Cuntlie Adam. It was just stupid, and Sherwood lamented it himself at the end of the season by mentioning how we had no passers from deep. So we had attacking players playing out of position there with the intent of doing so, and they just moved no less horizontally than our first choice options because we still had no balance.
Anyway, I think this problem is why the club is considering offers for Sandro and Dembele. Someone on SC posted the stat that in 152 possible Prem matches since arriving at Spurs, Sandro has only played in 60 of them. Yes, he had a long term injury last year, but he only started ten this year and only made it to 90 minutes in four of them. Between him, Dembele's degrading hip, Capoue picking up long term injuries for the first time in his career, sending Holtby away, having Livermore gone at the beginning of the season, Sherwood expressing frustration in Paulinho's empathy for our cause, it provided the illusion that we were thinner as a whole than we actually were.
Therefore, we have to provide opportunities for players such as Bentaleb and Kane to blood through. With 25 players registered above the age of 21, they will all demand playing time and they will all be more difficult to appease than a 19 year old who hadn't even decided what nationality to play for at the time. We can go forward with 20 or so registered of age players, as well as foreigners below the age of 21 (a la Eriksen and Lamela last year), and still maintain sufficient strength in numbers for the extent of a season while still managing to get youngsters on the pitch.
CJJ
, but I think at the point of 25 registered (meaning all above 21 of course) and fully able-to-contribute players you run the risk of cordoning off vital opportunities for youth. It seems to me that many of our problems last year dealing with injuries that you correctly point out, were only compounded by some of the selections we let go out on loan last season as well as the fact that Sherwood preferred a two-man central midfield. I know Holtby wanted more playing time, but we shouldn't have allowed it given what we knew about Dembele and Sandro's respective fitnesses, as well as the fact that at the time Paulinho was still knackered because of Cuntlie Adam. It was just stupid, and Sherwood lamented it himself at the end of the season by mentioning how we had no passers from deep. So we had attacking players playing out of position there with the intent of doing so, and they just moved no less horizontally than our first choice options because we still had no balance. Anyway, I think this problem is why the club is considering offers for Sandro and Dembele. Someone on SC posted the stat that in 152 possible Prem matches since arriving at Spurs, Sandro has only played in 60 of them. Yes, he had a long term injury last year, but he only started ten this year and only made it to 90 minutes in four of them. Between him, Dembele's degrading hip, Capoue picking up long term injuries for the first time in his career, sending Holtby away, having Livermore gone at the beginning of the season, Sherwood expressing frustration in Paulinho's empathy for our cause, it provided the illusion that we were thinner as a whole than we actually were.
Therefore, we have to provide opportunities for players such as Bentaleb and Kane to blood through. With 25 players registered above the age of 21, they will all demand playing time and they will all be more difficult to appease than a 19 year old who hadn't even decided what nationality to play for at the time. We can go forward with 20 or so registered of age players, as well as foreigners below the age of 21 (a la Eriksen and Lamela last year), and still maintain sufficient strength in numbers for the extent of a season while still managing to get youngsters on the pitch.
I agree with your main point there
Anyway, I think this problem is why the club is considering offers for Sandro and Dembele. Someone on SC posted the stat that in 152 possible Prem matches since arriving at Spurs, Sandro has only played in 60 of them. Yes, he had a long term injury last year, but he only started ten this year and only made it to 90 minutes in four of them. Between him, Dembele's degrading hip, Capoue picking up long term injuries for the first time in his career, sending Holtby away, having Livermore gone at the beginning of the season, Sherwood expressing frustration in Paulinho's empathy for our cause, it provided the illusion that we were thinner as a whole than we actually were.
Therefore, we have to provide opportunities for players such as Bentaleb and Kane to blood through. With 25 players registered above the age of 21, they will all demand playing time and they will all be more difficult to appease than a 19 year old who hadn't even decided what nationality to play for at the time. We can go forward with 20 or so registered of age players, as well as foreigners below the age of 21 (a la Eriksen and Lamela last year), and still maintain sufficient strength in numbers for the extent of a season while still managing to get youngsters on the pitch.
Whilst I know what you mean, it's not necessarily the case - you can pick up players who will cover and have experience to do so - Friedel is currently a good example, as is Schwartzer at Chelsea.
We have the FA Cup and Europa to blend in youth players, too - a good case for comparison is Redknapp's 2010 squad (first in 25 rule)
Benoit Assou-Ekotto,
Sebastian Bassong,
Vedran Corluka,
Carlo Cudicini,
Heurelho Gomes,
William Gallas,
Younes Kaboul,
Niko Kranjcar,
Luka Modric,
Wilson Palacios,
Roman Pavlyuchenko,
Stipe Pletikosa,
Rafael van der Vaart,
Alan Hutton,
David Bentley (HG),
Peter Crouch (HG),
Michael Dawson (HG),
Jermain Defoe (HG),
Tom Huddlestone (HG),
Jermaine Jenas (HG),
Robbie Keane (HG),
Ledley King (HG),
Aaron Lennon (HG),
Kyle Naughton (HG),
Jamie O'Hara (HG)
Bale & Sandro still managed to break through as U21 players that season, yet we had excellent depth.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/fo...emier-League-squad-2010-11.html#ixzz33b8sHszo
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It's very true what you say picking up players, and I can assure you I include our cup competitions in my consideration of the squad size, but both Bale and Sandro were expensive acquisitions we made with full intention of reduced risk of making the first team squad. If you look at Bentaleb's history before he got to us, it's rather plain to see why we paid significantly less to pick him up than the other two. All I'm saying is that last season wasn't really an indication of us leaving the squad short, we left it unbalanced if anything. More prudent decision making from Poch, Broomfield, and Baldini should allow us to have a very balanced, very conducive to Poch's plan, and very effective squad while still providing opportunity for youth, and it's highly possible we can still achieve this without having 25 fully registered of age players with full intent of seeing time with the first squad.
Quite, but next season we have no 'bought' U21 players, i.e. no young Eriksens, Lamelas, Bales, or Sandros (yet).
Just Bentaleb, Fryers & Kane really as 'backup' players (i.e. U21 players with PL experience) to the main squad. Bit daunting in comparison if you haven't registered 25 over 21's.
That doesn't mean necessarily selling Gibbsy ol boy, it just means they're mulling over them. Calm down.
Indeed, but it's all speculation as of now anyway. The only thing that we do know, from what you pointed out, we will mathematically have to sell one foreigner to go forward, and have to sell more if we intend to bring in any others.
Honestly, with 20-22 first team registered players, the possibility of a foreigner or two under the age of 21 (personally hope not, unless it's a young striker addition or the Vadillo kid at Betis we were rumored to be talking to), and that group of youngsters you just cited, I feel very confident we could take on all fronts healthily and suitably as long as the squad is balanced.
Link? Mulling over offers? You also said Ade would be imminent. Since you said he would be the first person Lev is going to sort out. You guaranteed it.
Ok, perhaps not essential, but very wise.
City were incredibly lucky that they didn't suffer from as many injuries as we had
Was it "very wise" for Rose, Towsnend, Naughton, Lennon and Defoe to get games this season? All players on our home grown list you said were essential. You think we were incredibly lucky to have these players this season? They were essential to our collapse.
It's why I said it was stupid for us to loan so many players and sell Caulker. We IMO stifled development of our young players by giving the home grown signed players above so many games. The emergence of Kane and Bentaleb are classic examples of players who should have seen more time in a different shape.
Also AVB was a thick twat for thinking we didnt need a real left back.
Oh my, we are being nit-picky now. Even using figures of speech against me, despite the fact they're impossible to prove and thereby speculative by nature, which you should have assumed. You are the king of superlatives on here, so I suggest you drop that hypocrisy.
As for the links, we have comments from Gianluco di Marzio suggesting Roma have expressed interest in Dembele and Napoli have put in a formal bid for Sandro. di Marzio has a track record of being accurate with our happenings from Italy. In fact, he cited the exact terms of our deal with Pochettino last week before the club had even announced him.
What we don't have privy to us is the club immediately saying no. So who are we to suggest they're not at least tabling them?
Unfortunately, being honest, I have no choice but to await your next round of blatant desperation.
Rather than initiate the usual dance, often a copy+paste of the same debate, I won't get into the Townsend/Lennon/Naughton etc. thing.
What I would say though, is that Defoe is one of our best strikers in terms of minutes per goal, and his lack of regular minutes in the Premier League was definitely a shame as we could have done with his paceyness on the counter, IMO.
As far as the LB situation goes, I don't blame AVB as he had little time to assess a player who was fantastic at LB for Sunderland the season prior (as per Walker for Villa before he was a regular), I am more disappointed that Sherwood saw the lack of contribution Rose was making and still failed to buy a LB or recall Benny, even with Levy breathing down his neck with offers.
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I don't know what your point is about the "Prem"? I didn't mentioned "cup, euro goals etc" at all, so I'm entirely unsure what you think you're reading all the time?
Defoe left because he didn't get PL game time and wanted to get in the world cup squad, silly move that backfired, but hey ho.
In the Premier League, he only played some 420 minutes; he was limited to 10 min end-of-game substitutes mostly. In fact, Harry Kane had almost double the game time in the Premier League that Defoe got.
420 mins Defoe scored 1 goal. 4.6 games per goal. His form before that was EVEN WORSE in early 2013. (and lets face it, in real games that is probably around 12 appearances because he cant last 90 mins or is a sub due to toilet form)
Kane got 3 goals. And Kane only started 6 games.
Proves my point that some so called experienced players are not always the best options. Esp with Kane's team ethic. Makes me wonder what other kids are being sat on because of project Rose etc.