"Yid" chanting...

[GeorgeKirchner7]

The FA would encourage fans to avoid using it in any situation.

And I encourage the FA to kindly fuck off.

 

[zin]

I don't like the word "bubbles" sung by West Ham fans as it's a word used in a derogatory way about Greeks and I don't like that they are blowing Greeks forever, I know the club is run by porn barons but there are kids in the ground listening to this.

I shall raise my complaint with the FA as a reasonable observer.

 

[BushHillSpurs]

The day that the FA successfully stamps out Spurs fans from using the chant "Yid Army" is the day I stop going to games and will just watch at home.
Sad to be saying this at 21 and only been going properly for 7 years..

 

[Gothamizm]

Just read through the entire thread. Much more knowledgeable about the topic and the background of the term as well as the history of Judaism. Not much more decided either way about the term, but frankly I know that we'll continue to use it BECAUSE of the FA's insistence that we don't as much as anything else - their targeting us because we're making noises they don't like the sound of, and simultaneously ignoring the frank and bafflingly open abuse that other London-based clubs in particular throw our way is offensive to me as a Spurs fan, a human being and a person with some kind of brain in my fucking head.

Nonetheless - I also found these posts from way back when which make me cry at the changes the board has gone through in the last year.

You want to maybe stop by some of the other forums out there. In some of those places you can pick up enemies just for having a dissenting opinion!

Thankfully this place has thus far shown itself to be well above such nonsense.

Smoked, I haven't looked, as I am using the forum app on my phone, but I'd be stunned if you've been neg repped in this thread. I think people here are very tolerant.

It's still a fledgling forum, but I hope it's the same when it hits 2,000 members.

EDIT: Just went on 'full version' view and saw that Trunk's original post was neg repped. Shame. I've counter-repped it.

 

[1882]

The ground's gonna be virtually fucking empty at 3.05pm on Saturday if they sling out everyone singing it!

by the way, and this may have been said before (did not read lol!) but the word YID was not originally deemed an offensive term, right? I mean PROPERLY original meaning, not just since post War...
Therefore it must have BECOME an offensive word, when USED BY OFFENSIVE PEOPLE, right?
So are you telling me the FA are bowing to THAT later interpretation, rather than its original meaning and usage, 'cos that's probably the only one they're aware of?

It's letting the racists win IMHO!

 

[BushHillSpurs]

My view is that if anyone is offended by it, then it shouldn't be used. It's clear that people do get offended, so we shouldn't use it.

I know this post is from a long time ago but damn, :llorisserious: Im offended by the word "Mug".... should that ever be used again?

Get a grip. No one should ever be offended by a word. Grow a thick skin and grow up.

 

[HyNdZee]

I'm offended by the FA. Can we ban them?

 

[Smoked Salmon]

I know this post is from a long time ago but damn, :llorisserious: Im offended by the word "Mug".... should that ever be used again?

Get a grip. No one should ever be offended by a word. Grow a thick skin and grow up.

If your family had suffered losses in the concentration camps you might not not be so callous as to think things are only ever "just a word".

My maternal grandfather's may have come to the UK before the war, but their cousins did not. Yid was one of the many forms of bigotry that he and his family encountered before they left Poland and after they arrived here. Hate does not spring out if nowhere. You may not intended to spread hate with it, but others still do, and there are other people still alive who have been used as targets and suffered it as an insult.

Still, it hardly surprises me that someone like you, who follows the EDL doctrine that all Muslims are evil and incompatible with society, should equally feel that Jews should just shut the fuck up and out up with it.

 

[BushHillSpurs]

If your family had suffered losses in the concentration camps

You make assumptions that I havent. I am from a Jewish heritage too.

Still, it hardly surprises me that someone like you, who follows the EDL doctrine that all Muslims are evil and incompatible with society.

another assumption, this time that I am with the EDL. More bullshit from the biggest spouter. Find me one post, or recollect one time where I have ever said I side with them.

You make up the biggest bullshit ever. Its unreal.

My maternal grandfather's may have come to the UK before the war, but their cousins did not. Yid was one of the many forms of bigotry that he and his family encountered before they left Poland and after they arrived here. Hate does not spring out if nowhere. You may not intended to spread hate with it, but others still do, and there are other people still alive who have been used as targets and suffered it as an insult.

Listen, cunt chops. I agree that the word "Yid" should never EVER have had to be used in football because frankly, why does it? However, this word was only used because of our reaction to terrace chants? How many times per game do we use that chant? How many times since the 80's have we used that chant in defiance? If you were that offended by it you would of fucked off and supported Leyton Orient.

 

[1882]

OK, fuck this I've had enough.... get me Wiki on the line....

Yid
From Wikipedia;
The word Yid (/ˈjiːd/; Yiddish: ייִד)[clarification needed] is a slang Jewish ethnonym. Its usage may be controversial in modernEnglish language. *It is not usually considered offensive when pronounced /ˈjiːd/ (rhyming with deed), the way Yiddish speakers say it, though some may deem the word offensive nonetheless.

Etymology
A page from Elia Levita's Yiddish-Hebrew-Latin-German dictionary (16th century) contains a list of nations, including an entry for Jew: Hebrew:יְהוּדִי‎ Yiddish: יוּד German: Iud Latin: Iudaeus
The term Yid has its origins in the Middle High German word Jüde (the contemporary German word is Jude).

Leo Rosten provides the following etymology:
From the German: Jude: 'Jew.' And 'Jude' is a truncated form of Yehuda, which was the name given to the Jewish Commonwealth in the period of the Second Temple. That name, in turn, was derived from the name of one of Jacob's sons, Yehuda (Judah, in English), whose descendants constituted one of the tribes of Israel and who settled in that portion of Canaan from Jerusalem south to Kadesh-Barnea (50 miles south of Beersheba) and from Jerichowestwards to the Mediterranean.[2]

History
The earliest mention of the word Yid in print was in The Slang Dictionary published by John Camden Hotten in 1874. Hotten noted that "The Jews use these terms very frequently."[1]
After World War II, most examples of the word Yid are found in the writing of Jewish authors. These occurrences are usually either attempts to accurately portray antisemitic speech, or self-deprecating Jewish humor. In his 1968 bestsellerThe Joys of Yiddish, Leo Rosten offers a number of anecdotes from the "Borscht Belt" to illustrate such usage.[1]

Usage in Yiddish
In Yiddish, the word "Yid" Yiddish: ייד is neutral or even complimentary, and in Ashkenazi Yiddish-speaking circles it is frequently used to mean simply "fellow," "chap," "buddy," "mate," etc., with no expressed emphasis on Jewishness (although this may be implied by the intra-Jewish context). Plural is יידן [jidn].

In Yiddish, a polite way to address a fellow Jew whose name one does not know is Reb Yid, meaning "Sir." The Yiddish words yidish or yiddisher (from Middle High German jüdisch) is an adjective derived from the noun Yid, and thus means "Jewish".

Someone show it to the FA and put an end to this!
The only reason they've decided to try and ban it, is 'cos Anti-Semites and Nazis (and latterly Chelsea/West Ham fans) MADE it derogatory... the word was NOT, repeat NOT deemed offensive until THAT LOT stole it, abused it, and spat it out for the rest of us to clean up and deal with... that's why people who are offended by it, are offended by it! It's the modern mis-use of the word that has undone hundreds of years of historical usage!

...and THAT is why Tottenham's fans should be applauded for attempting to re-instate the word as a term of pride, and endearment... not told by some ignorant prick at the FA that we'll be turfed out of the ground for daring to try and do something positive about it, just 'cos David Baddeil (who, if he really knew his history, should know better) told him to!

The other compromise, is simply to shout out "Yeed Army" instead, 'cos that's how the Yiddishers say it!

 

[WookieD]

Great post @ 1882 . It's why I get a little perplexed by people like @ Smoked Salmon who are both Jewish and Spurs and want the word stamped out. It ISN'T a bad word, it has just been made to seem so by a particularly nasty group of people.

I can understand it to a point, of course I can. But if a part of my ethnicity was taken from me and used against me, I would want to take it back. It's not like the N word, as that has never had a positive connotation. Yid was a living breathing word with, if anything, an endearing meaning... It's like saying "alright bro", you get me fam? It should be again.

 

[bensonrecon]

I'm not about to tell someone if they should or shouldn't be offended by the word but I'm pretty much with @ 1882 on this.

The way the FA statement is worded it comes across as if we are being blamed for the use of the word, others have already blamed us using it for the reasons why fans were attacked in Lyon and Rome and as we all know it's used because of the way it was used at us for our connections to the Jewish community. I can't recall ONE occasion where the FA has taken active steps to deal with the abuses we are subjected to. I can't recall (by all means show me I'm wrong) the FA standing up and giving us support after the European shit last year and then when the few dozen West Ham scumbags started their shit at The Lane they stood back, did nothing and then complimented West Ham for banning one person. Where is the balance?

If they want to address the broader issue then I don't think a single one of us would have an issue but instead we are treated like criminals and instigators.

 

[MKYid]

Am I gonna have to change my username?

 

[1882]

The only analogy I can think of to slightly lighten the mood, would be if you had a favourite toy as a kid... let's say a fluffy teddy bear... you take it to school one day, and one of the bullies not only steals your bear, but starts throwing it at people, maybe catching someone in the eye with the little plastic nose...
basically, he's not playing with it properly.
YOU try to take it back, and show him how to play nicely... but then the Teacher, an ignorant busybody and failed academic (let's say her name is Miss Baddeil) not only confiscates your bear and tells you that you can't have it back, but that you're not allowed to mention it EVER AGAIN or she'll throw you out of class!
...she's indirectly allowed the nasty bully to win!
(incidentally, this didn't really happen in my childhood... I made it all up!)

ON A SIDE NOTE... just watching Newsnight, and their DIPLOMATIC EDITOR Marc Urban has just used the phrase 'Nitty-Gritty' on two separate occasions, referring to summit about Syria...
This particular phrase was once (rightly or wrongly) assumed to have links to Slave ships/and or Intercourse between white land owners and their slaves... this theory was later proved to be, if not totally incorrect, then slightly inaccurate. The point being, is that there would've been a time when the BBC may have winced at the thought of someone using the phrase... but it is merely a word/phrase that at some point down the line, came to be interpreted as something else BY SOME, simply through an ignorant mis-understanding of its' original usage...
...and now back to the original topic...

 

[1882]

Am I gonna have to change my username?

Yes... Milton Keynes is quite offensive to some!!

 

[ChickenTonight]

The FA are just laying the ground work for the 9 point deduction at the end of the season that takes us from 3rd to 5th.
Cunts.

 

[WookieD]

Yes... Milton Keynes is quite offensive to some!!

It is if you live in Wimbledon

 

[LLB Part Deux]

Is it ok to chant "FA cunts fuck off and die"? Or is that offensive to cunts?

 

[AlMacca_]

Genuinely don't care what the FA say. I absolutely despise them and I'd sooner stop going to games than listen to those mugs.

 

[Flav]

The day that the FA successfully stamps out Spurs fans from using the chant "Yid Army" is the day I stop going to games and will just watch at home.
Sad to be saying this at 21 and only been going properly for 7 years..

Wouldn't stop going but completely agree with the sentiment. It is important. We can't simply role over because some men who have no understanding of why we call ourselves 'yids' decide that we can no longer say the word. Actually it's nothing to do with them, with any other club, with our own club, it's ours, Tottenham Hotspur supporters and if united no one can take it from us.