The “They’re really going to have a World Cup in QATAR?” Thread

[Fazz]

Explain?

He thinks I made your account just to attack the US. I think his mind can't grasp the possibility that there can be more than one person here that detests US foreign policy and points out the hypocrisy of these social justice warriors bleating about Qatar.

 

[stevee]

I don't need an alternative account to attack US foreign policy, I enjoy doing it enough on my own account

Well, at least you admit that you attack the US.
A bit more honesty than your last post on the matter.

Good for you.

 

[stevee]

He thinks I made your account just to attack the US. I think his mind can't grasp the possibility that there can be more than one person here that detests US foreign policy and points out the hypocrisy of these social justice warriors bleating about Qatar.

Don't forget to blame terrorism on the US like you usually do.

 

[Fazz]

Well, at least you admit that you attack the US.
A bit more honesty than your last post on the matter.

Good for you.

Never denied it mate.

Don't forget to blame terrorism on the US like you usually do.

Only when they commit it or fund it.

 

[stevee]

Only when they commit it or fund it.

Well, that's a lie as we all know.

Next you'll be telling me that you never defended Qatar's stance on homosexuality.

All those "I'm not homophobic but..." posts never fooled anybody.

 

[Fazz]

Well, that's a lie as we all know.

Next you'll be telling me that you never defended Qatar's stance on homosexuality.

All those "I'm not homophobic but..." posts never fooled anybody.

What's a lie? That the US terrorises and kills civilians across the world? Surely, you can't be serious

 

[stevee]

What's a lie? That the US terrorises and kills civilians across the world? Surely, you can't be serious

What's a lie is you claiming that you only criticise the US when they "commit or fund" terrorism.

I noticed that you don't deny defending Qatar's repugnant attitude towards homosexuality.

 

[Fazz]

What's a lie is you claiming that you only criticise the US when they "commit or fund" terrorism.

I noticed that you don't deny defending Qatar's repugnant attitude towards homosexuality.

Boy you really know how to take things out of context.

You mentioned terrorism, not me - and in that particular context I said I only critique the US when it commits/funds it. That doesn't mean I haven't haven't criticised the US on other issues but we weren't discussing those. It's tiring explaining myself to someone whose so touchy about the US. As for your second paragraph, I've discussed that plenty on this thread- take your baiting elsewhere.

 

[stevee]

Boy you really know how to take things out of context.

You mentioned terrorism, not me - and in that particular context I said I only critique the US when it commits/funds it. That doesn't mean I haven't haven't criticised the US on other issues but we weren't discussing those. It's tiring explaining myself to someone whose so touchy about the US. As for your second paragraph, I've discussed that plenty on this thread- take your baiting elsewhere.

I never said that you don't criticise the US on other matters.
On the contrary, you try and blame the US for every wrong and every atrocity commited by terrorists.
You even tried to equate the blowing up of a bridge in Ukraine to terrorism.
Needless to say, you got destroyed very quickly on that one by many posters.

You have discussed Qatar's laws on homosexuality plenty, and not once have you condemned, spoken out, or criticised it in anyway what so ever.

Instead what you've done is post long winded rhetoric, full of excuses of why it's ok for Qatar to discriminate against gay people.

 

[pakistani-spur]

Ask yourself this, if you didn’t boycott the 2018 Russia World Cup for humanitarian or sociopolitical reasons, I don’t get why you would boycott or be antagonised by it being held in Qatar.

 

[Fazz]

I never said that you don't criticise the US on other matters.
On the contrary, you try and blame the US for every wrong and every atrocity commited by terrorists.
You even tried to equate the blowing up of a bridge in Ukraine to terrorism.
Needless to say, you got destroyed very quickly on that one by many posters.

You have discussed Qatar's laws on homosexuality plenty, and not once have you condemned, spoken out, or criticised it in anyway what so ever.

Instead what you've done is post long winded rhetoric, full of excuses of why it's ok for Qatar to discriminate against gay people.

Now whose lying. I don't blame the US for the terrorism of terrorist groups unless the US directly funded them. For example, I don't blame the US for the terrorism of groups like Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram etc but I do blame the US for the terrorism that the Saudi state is carrying out in Yemen for example. After the Saudis themselves, the US bears the most responsibility for supporting and arming the slow genocide. You by the looks of it support that as you think Western countries are all angelic by nature? Your black and white view of the world is maybe why you have this emotional response to criticism of US or the "good guys" in your fairytale world.

As for Qatar, you can quote one of my many posts in this thread if you want but I have specifically said they shouldn't have the World Cup and are hypocritical on this particular stance. Take your childish baiting elsewhere.

For someone that supports/justifies/cries when the US is criticised for much greater crimes than that of Qatar, you'd think you would have enough self awareness to not moralise with others but apparently not. It's them stickly brown people crimes we should solely be focusing on eh?

 

[stevee]

Now whose lying. I don't blame the US for the terrorism of terrorist groups unless the US directly funded them. For example, I don't blame the US for the terrorism of groups like Al-Qaeda, Boko Haram etc but I do blame the US for the terrorism that the Saudi state is carrying out in Yemen for example. After the Saudis themselves, the US bears the most responsibility for supporting and arming the slow genocide. You by the looks of it support that as you think Western countries are all angelic by nature? Your black and white view of the world is maybe why you have this emotional response to criticism of US or the "good guys" in your fairytale world.

As for Qatar, you can quote one of my many posts in this thread if you want but I have specifically said they shouldn't have the World Cup and are hypocritical on this particular stance. Take your childish baiting elsewhere.

For someone that supports/justifies/cries when the US is criticised for much greater crimes than that of Qatar, you'd think you would have enough self awareness to not moralise with others but apparently not. It's them stickly brown people crimes we should solely be focusing on eh?

More rhetoric, and more bollocks from you.

Here is a question I asked you ages ages ago, although there were other things in my original post ;

A simple question, regardless of country, religion or race;

Do you believe that homosexuals should have the same rights as the rest of society ?

If the answer is yes (as any right minded person should think that to be the case) then you have to condemn those countries where it is illegal.

It really is as simple as that.

And this was your answer.....

I agree with your opening statements in a generic way. Few regimes are likely to be influenced unless they saw some sort of benefit in it for themselves. That is why I mentioned ordinary people, as if you want real change, it usually comes from the bottom up and not top down.

( A slight aside here but there is an exception to this general rule that is developing as we speak and that is Saudi. Prince Salman is a staunch secularist. He is slowly changing Saudi from the top down, so as to align his country more and more with Western values. I mean the guy also happens to be an absolute madman and will also kill 'inconvenient' people but he is actually changing the very fabric and structure of Saudi society. That is another one of the countries I have lived in for a short period and I can't fully express how much he has changed and how fast. Much of it against the will of his people. I suppose some people will celebrate when Saudi becomes more aligned with Western values against the will of its people but I won't- I see big problems coming to that country very soon)

Anyway back to the point, where I disagree with you is when you say that intellectual arguments cannot change dogmatic views, religious or otherwise. I see it happening regularly. As somewhat of a staunch hard-core salafist character myself at one point, it was intellectual argumentation that changed many of my views. I have seen people leave religion altogether and come into religion as well, all because of conversation. This way is more productive than the enforced Saudi way which will have negative consequences.

And I didn't ask for these rights to be ignored. I simply made the point that if you want things to be changed, there is a right way of doing it and a wrong way. If you are not interested in change, but simply want to make a stand against an idea you disagree with, then fair enough. But the international pressure put on Qatar is with intention for it to change and conform to the current world order.

You speak about human rights but a Qatari would just say who put the UN human rights charter together? What ideological viewpoint was it grounded by? Apart from secular Liberalism, were the moral viewpoints of other ideologies considered? Did Qataris have a say in it? Is it then binding on Qataris?

I'm not asking these questions to come across as some sort of stubborn contrarion. I'm actually one of the few people that has bothered to read the declaration of human rights and broadly agree with its principles. My point is you are appealing to one secular Liberal idea to prove another secular Liberal idea, and the answer you'll get is what I stated above. Also many of the 30 points in the human rights declaration have been repeatedly ignored by powerful Western nations so why should they appeal to the ordinary Qatari?

And I think people have every right to condemn things they disagree with, that's not what I'm arguing. But you can condemn an idea/person but still engage them in civil discussion in order to get your point across.

Apologies if I'm coming across as unnecessarily argumentative. That's not my intention, especially with a poster I generally find myself agreeing with. I'm just giving a viewpoint that is probably not widely held but I have experienced due to my unique position of having lived in the East and the West. I mean in my very family, I have ultra orthodox Salafist Muslims as well as very secular liberals - as you can imagine, family gatherings are a treat!

Perhaps you'd like to answer it again now ?


When somebody cries "racism" you know they're desperate and have no where else to turn.

Take a look at the "racism, apathy, acceptance" thread.
Then see who started it.
Then read the first post.
There you will see my views on racism and prejudice.

And when you've done that have a look in the "Tommy Robinson" thread.
Then read my posts in there and my views on Muslims and Islam in general.

So you can fuck off with your "sticky brown people" comment.




Anyone who defends, or refuses, to condemn any prejudice, whether it be based on race, gender, religion, sexuality, or any thing else is a cunt.

 

[Frankfurter]

More rhetoric, and more bollocks from you.

Here is a question I asked you ages ages ago ;


And this was your answer.....

Perhaps you'd like to answer it again now ?


When somebody cries "racism" you know they're desperate and have no where else to turn.

Take a look at the "racism, apathy, acceptance" thread.
Then see who started it.
Then read the first post.
There you will see my views on racism and prejudice.

And when you've done that have a look in the "Tommy Robinson" thread.
Then read my posts in there and my views on Muslims and Islam in general.

So you can fuck off with your "sticky brown people" comment.




Anyone who defends, or refuses, to condemn any prejudice, whether it be based on race, gender, religion, sexuality, or any thing else is a cunt.

On this way many thanks stevee!

You asked clear questions and received nebulous answers, nonsense phrases!

It's good that there are people who keep stepping on these conspiracy theorists' toes!

Thank you very much!

 

[Pathfinder]

How many workers died building the Qatar World Cup? Misinformation conceals the true ‘scandal’

Migrant workers built the $200 billion worth of infrastructure Qatar needed to host the World Cup while dealing with appalling and exploitative conditions.

sports.yahoo.com

 

[Fazz]

More rhetoric, and more bollocks from you.

Here is a question I asked you ages ages ago, although there were other things in my original post ;


And this was your answer.....

Perhaps you'd like to answer it again now ?


When somebody cries "racism" you know they're desperate and have no where else to turn.

Take a look at the "racism, apathy, acceptance" thread.
Then see who started it.
Then read the first post.
There you will see my views on racism and prejudice.

And when you've done that have a look in the "Tommy Robinson" thread.
Then read my posts in there and my views on Muslims and Islam in general.

So you can fuck off with your "sticky brown people" comment.




Anyone who defends, or refuses, to condemn any prejudice, whether it be based on race, gender, religion, sexuality, or any thing else is a cunt.

So you completely ignore my mention of US war crimes and terrorism and proceed to ask questions which I've already answered like this is some sort of inquisition?

That alone shows your dishonesty and inability to defend your povs. You will ignore the greater crimes of the countries you like (Western ones) and focus on the crimes of non- Western ones. At least I'm consistent and point out the hypocrisy of both Qatar and the US.

You on the hand will ignore the death of hundreds of thousands of people at the hands of mass murderers when it suits you but at the same time bleat about the murder of people in Ukraine. What's the difference?

Il tell you. One set of victims is brown. The other set of victims is white. Racism isn't just saying derogatory words. Your differentiation between brown victims of war and white victims tells me all I need to know. I don't need to read other threads where you promote your bullshit anti-racist agenda. Things like this say more than those threads ever will.

Again, at least I'm consistent l. I think Putin is a war criminal too. You, however, show all the traits of the wokists who go around moralising with others but are absolute hypocrites that often betray their own subtle bigotry.

 

[Fazz]

On this way many thanks stevee!

You asked clear questions and received nebulous answers, nonsense phrases!

It's good that there are people who keep stepping on these conspiracy theorists' toes!

Thank you very much!

Which bit of what I said was a conspiracy theory?

 

[Fazz]

Ask yourself this, if you didn’t boycott the 2018 Russia World Cup for humanitarian or sociopolitical reasons, I don’t get why you would boycott or be antagonised by it being held in Qatar.

There's many reasons but one understated reason is the media. The media didn't have the same reaction to Russia that it has to Qatar. And the sheeple generally follow where the media leads. By any metric, as you said, we should have had this same uproar for Russia, but the humanitarian issues weren't highlighted as loudly or as vociferously, so the backlash was on a much smaller scale.

Of course, if Russia were to host a tournament nowadays, it would be completely different.

 

[stevee]

So you completely ignore my mention of US war crimes and terrorism and proceed to ask questions which I've already answered like this is some sort of inquisition?

That alone shows your dishonesty and inability to defend your povs. You will ignore the greater crimes of the countries you like (Western ones) and focus on the crimes of non- Western ones. At least I'm consistent and point out the hypocrisy of both Qatar and the US.

You on the hand will ignore the death of hundreds of thousands of people at the hands of mass murderers when it suits you but at the same time bleat about the murder of people in Ukraine. What's the difference?

Il tell you. One set of victims is brown. The other set of victims is white. Racism isn't just saying derogatory words. Your differentiation between brown victims of war and white victims tells me all I need to know. I don't need to read other threads where you promote your bullshit anti-racist agenda. Things like this say more than those threads ever will.

Again, at least I'm consistent l. I think Putin is a war criminal too. You, however, show all the traits of the wokists who go around moralising with others but are absolute hypocrites that often betray their own subtle bigotry.

What the actual fuck are you blabbering on about.

I have never debated the rights or wrongs of the West vs terrorist, or any atrocities committed by either side.

As you are obviously too thick, or are being deliberately obtuse I'll explain it for you.

I abhore violence by anyone.
I abhore prejudice by anyone.

What I was attacking was your constant blaming of the west for any violent acts committed anywhere in the world and your obsession with "whataboutism".

You're obsessed with blaming the US for everything, and are incapable of having a balanced view.

The reason you won't read other threads is because your racist accusations will be proven 100% false.

I'll save you the bother of looking and post some here ;

I'm not sure I understand your reply.
So there can be no British Muslims ?
Or British Muslims are not really British ?
Saying that "Islam is an ideology not a race" is a cop out IMHO.
Islam is a religion, the same as Judaism was in Nazi Germany and we all know how that ended.

Following on from The Son thread where he received racial abuse and some members posting this.





These are really valid points.
So IMO there is a "hierarchy" of racism/prejudice.

In order of "worst" these is how I see it;

1) Black people
2) People from the sub-continent
3) Asians
4) Muslims
5) Jews
6) Other nations
7) Homosexuals
8) Women's rights
9) Travelling community (Thanks FokkenPrawn )

Surely any form of racism or prejudice should be treated the same ?

Interesting that every time there's a downturn in the economy/recession, throughout history, fascism raises it's ugly head.
First it was the Jews in medievel times.
In more modern times it changed to Irish, West Indians, Eastern Europeans and now Muslims.
All labeled with the same tags, greedy, lazy, taking our jobs, taking benefits etc. etc. blah blah blah.

Now tell me again about how racist I am you lying, twisting, disingenuous cunt.

You've answered fuck all.
I'll ask again;

A simple question, regardless of country, religion or race;

Do you believe that homosexuals should have the same rights as the rest of society ?

If the answer is yes (as any right minded person should think that to be the case) then you have to condemn those countries where it is illegal.

It really is as simple as that.


You can continue to post a load of long winded rhetoric, full of bollocks and "whataboutery" but every time you refuse to answer I'll bring you back to the above question and expose your blatant homophobia.

Edit:
Carded for your repeated, unfounded, accusations of racism.

 

[Dr Rocktopus]

 

[Raf]

There's many reasons but one understated reason is the media. The media didn't have the same reaction to Russia that it has to Qatar. And the sheeple generally follow where the media leads. By any metric, as you said, we should have had this same uproar for Russia, but the humanitarian issues weren't highlighted as loudly or as vociferously, so the backlash was on a much smaller scale.

Of course, if Russia were to host a tournament nowadays, it would be completely different.

Russia were committing mass slaughter in Syria at the time they had the World Cup. And Russia were geopolitically opposed to the west in Syria.

Qatar funded jihadi scum in Syria which destroyed the country and were on the same side as the west who were happy to see Syrians kill each other.

Something to think about.