Harry Winks

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Unfortunately he seems to be a latest in the long line of workmanlike midfield players we have produced. Bentaleb/Mason/Carroll.

I had hoped that he would develop further into something more than the defensive screen/recycler he currently is. But I'm starting to have doubts. I said years ago when he broke into the team that he needed to hit the weights and protein supplements. Too easily shrugged off the ball for my liking.

There's Skipp waiting in the wings, I've no idea why Mourihno won't give him a try. The two cup games against Middlesboro were the obvious ones. Maybe Norwich?
 
Joshking5 said:
I honestly don’t get where the winks hate comes from, he wasn’t bad against Watford and set up a brilliant chance while working hard.

If son had taken a touch then he would have scored. He progresses the ball well and is being played out of position as a 6.

why does everyone hate him so much?
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Because there was another 89 minutes of mediocrity, again.
 
Matt1882 said:
Because there was another 89 minutes of mediocrity, again.
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What mediocrity? What are you expecting of him? He isn’t an attacking midfielder, he isn’t a defensive midfielder. His job is to progress the ball, hang on to it in tight spaces then pass it to Lo celso/ndombele/eriksen.

He does that well I don’t get what everyone’s problem is?

He keeps things ticking.
 
Joshking5 said:
What mediocrity? What are you expecting of him? He isn’t an attacking midfielder, he isn’t a defensive midfielder. His job is to progress the ball, hang on to it in tight spaces then pass it to Lo celso/ndombele/eriksen.

He does that well I don’t get what everyone’s problem is?

He keeps things ticking.
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If you really want, I could explain to you why he is ordinary. But I would just be repeating myself. And that's a job better left to the likes of bus-conductor.

I think he is dreadful and wish he would go full-time in the music biz.
 
Joshking5 said:
What mediocrity? What are you expecting of him? He isn’t an attacking midfielder, he isn’t a defensive midfielder. His job is to progress the ball, hang on to it in tight spaces then pass it to Lo celso/ndombele/eriksen.

He does that well I don’t get what everyone’s problem is?

He keeps things ticking.
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He does. Our issue is not Winks it’s the lack of a DM of quality. Winks as an 8 is a good player who enables possession control but he is not a natural DM.

Dier has no mobility, Waynama’s knees are gone. We have in Ndombele, Winks and Gedson, 3 decent to top quality number 8’s with Sissoko as something slightly different and Lo Celso as a 8/10 hybrid.

Unless we purchase a DM our midfield will have zero balance and never play how it should.
 
Totti said:
Because he's not Dembele.

Same reason Sanchez got hate. He wasn't Vertonghen or Alderweireld.

Same reason Trippier got hate. He wasn't Walker.

Sams reason Davies got hate. He wasn't Rose.

Etc. Etc.
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In Dembele, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Walker and Rose we had top, top players. Very difficult for Winks, Sanchez, Trippier and Davies to fill those voids but I do think that the latter list lack genuine cutting edge quality that frustrates. Winks isn't grave enough in the final third, seems reluctant to take the chances you need to to make a change, Sanchez seems to lose track of the ball when it bounces and comes up at him etc and Trippier + Davies were steady Eddie type players.

All of them fine but for where we strive to be all fine as squad players. We've relied on a fair few players simp,y not up to the levels we aspire to be, hence why we e seemingly fallen backwards. Winks against Watford was typical Winks. Nice, tidy, clean, easy on the eye but there were a couple of occasions where the pitch opened up for him and he waltzed forward but never with conviction. Looking for a pass too soon he allowed Watford to get back quicker than someone with razor sharp football teeth. For me that's the qualm I have, his mindset not his actual ability etc.
 
Matt1882 said:
Winks adds nothing to the team other than looking a bit dapper.

He gets the ball and he lays it off immediately to the nearest player. Anyone could do that. Anyone.
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To be fair last few games he's played some nice passes forward but his defensive game is the real problem here - no physicality whatsoever and simply lunges into everything
 
Matt1882 said:
Winks adds nothing to the team other than looking a bit dapper.

He gets the ball and he lays it off immediately to the nearest player. Anyone could do that. Anyone.
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He ensures we retain possession and can progress the ball forward.

he can actually pass accurately which is more than Dier or Sissoko can say. He is very important to us being able to control games with our current injuries.

Do I have him in my starting 11 when everybody is fit? No I don’t, but just because someone isn’t world class it doesn’t mean they are shit. He is a very important squad player.

The hate just astounds me, he rarely puts a foot wrong and can wriggle out of tight situations.

when he does play you will also find that he is the pass before the pass that creates a shot on goal aswell.
 
Joshking5 said:
He ensures we retain possession and can progress the ball forward.

he can actually pass accurately which is more than Dier or Sissoko can say. He is very important to us being able to control games with our current injuries.

Do I have him in my starting 11 when everybody is fit? No I don’t, but just because someone isn’t world class it doesn’t mean they are shit. He is a very important squad player.

The hate just astounds me, he rarely puts a foot wrong and can wriggle out of tight situations.

when he does play you will also find that he is the pass before the pass that creates a shot on goal aswell.
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I hate to ask this as it sounds condescending, but do you go to games a lot?
 
Joshking5 said:
I am not a ST holder, but I get to about 10 home games a season.
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And in those 10 games, how often has he played?
Reason I ask if when you sit in the gods like I do, you get to see the whole pitch and what players are doing and more importantly, what they could have done.
Winks has been around for a good few years now and, as a ST holder, I've seen the majority of his home games. I can see he receives the ball. Often he makes a bit of space for himself. Most often he then passes it less than 10 yards backwards or sideways. He makes no use of any work he's done, he slows attacks and generally turns the team performance sour by doing all of this. There are often players busting a lung on the overlap waiting for the pass, or hanging on a shoulder for a through ball, but it never comes.
I don't know if it's instructions or instinct but 2 different coaches have overseen exactly the same stuff.
 
Matt1882 said:
And in those 10 games, how often has he played?
Reason I ask if when you sit in the gods like I do, you get to see the whole pitch and what players are doing and more importantly, what they could have done.
Winks has been around for a good few years now and, as a ST holder, I've seen the majority of his home games. I can see he receives the ball. Often he makes a bit of space for himself. Most often he then passes it less than 10 yards backwards or sideways. He makes no use of any work he's done, he slows attacks and generally turns the team performance sour by doing all of this. There are often players busting a lung on the overlap waiting for the pass, or hanging on a shoulder for a through ball, but it never comes.
I don't know if it's instructions or instinct but 2 different coaches have overseen exactly the same stuff.
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Last game I saw that he started was Villa at home so way back at the start of the season, so yes most of my winks watching has been on the sofa.

My argument isn't that he is amazing though, he isn't an expansive player and yes once a game I do sigh when he inevitably 1 touch passes the ball back to one of our CB's instead of turning and passing forward.

I do think he needs to get better at knowing when he has the space to turn and pass, but I feel like the fact he doesn't lose possession as much as our other midfielders is why he is selected.

When he does actually turn around in space he does look forward. His Job is to pass to Ndombele or Lo Celso and not lose the ball, I think he is a limited player who does that well.

He isn't someone that i think is going to make a big mistake in possession that leads to an opposition chance like Dier is capable of.
 
Joshking5 said:
Last game I saw that he started was Villa at home so way back at the start of the season, so yes most of my winks watching has been on the sofa.

My argument isn't that he is amazing though, he isn't an expansive player and yes once a game I do sigh when he inevitably 1 touch passes the ball back to one of our CB's instead of turning and passing forward.

I do think he needs to get better at knowing when he has the space to turn and pass, but I feel like the fact he doesn't lose possession as much as our other midfielders is why he is selected.

When he does actually turn around in space he does look forward. His Job is to pass to Ndombele or Lo Celso and not lose the ball, I think he is a limited player who does that well.

He isn't someone that i think is going to make a big mistake in possession that leads to an opposition chance like Dier is capable of.
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The Villa game was a great example of how little he offers, unfortunately the media drew attention away from it by claiming our performance improved when Eriksen came on. It wasn't him coming on that changed it, it was Winks going off and our play instantly becoming more positive.
There are numerous games throughout the season where this has been evident. Unfortunately a few of them were already lost by the time he was taken off. Think United and Liverpool away. Awful performances, but the last 20-30 minutes were actually a lot better.
 
Matt1882 said:
The Villa game was a great example of how little he offers, unfortunately the media drew attention away from it by claiming our performance improved when Eriksen came on. It wasn't him coming on that changed it, it was Winks going off and our play instantly becoming more positive.
There are numerous games throughout the season where this has been evident. Unfortunately a few of them were already lost by the time he was taken off. Think United and Liverpool away. Awful performances, but the last 20-30 minutes were actually a lot better.
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Just gonna have to agree to disagree, I didn’t think he was the problem at all.
 
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