Summer 2019 transfer thread

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It wasn't just "older" per se, but more experienced/proven/profile players, around the time (2016 ish) we gave him more say in transfers, he seemed to be making noises about how we need to compete with others and we bought players like (27yo Sissoko, 24yo Aurier, 25yo Moura, 31yo Llorente. I think these were compromised attempts by spurs/Poch to get nearer to that profile.

I know we also still bought some younger players like Sanchez and Foyth etc, I'm not saying it's black and white. But this summer we've bought 4 players, two 23yos, a 19yo and an 18yo - not one well established, proven player, seasoned international etc etc (great bunch of signings though IMO, except Clark who I know nothing about really) and Poch has said what he's said, about having little say in transfers. I don't believe this is black and white either, Poch says a lot of wonky gibberish at times, but he's been pretty truculent of late.

S'funny, cos of the players you mention Sissoko, Llorente & Lucas were all opportunistically cast as "levy signings" by his detractors for different reasons.

As for Lucas & Aurier: 24 & 25 are pre-peak development ages and I'd say don't fit the profile you're painting at all.

The simplest interpretation of his summer outburst was clearly; "I don't do the deals so fuck off with your dumb questions you media wankers" mixed with a tint of "hurry up Levy" thrown in. This whole 'different player profile'-drive you're highlighting is significantly short of anything Poch has actually said (or even implied)... If as you say, Poch is prone to "wonky gibberish" then why of all avenues to take would you choose to interpret it as things he hasn't 'hinted' towards.

Out of all our links and business over the last few years you only manage to cite 2 players that are above 25, FFS.
 
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I think you really need to think things through before you dive like an exuberant puppy, all eager to to look clever with your apoplectic “how ridiculousness”. You did exactly this last week and ended up looking very silly didn’t you.

If you can't tell the difference between 23yo Ndombele's 60 odd games and 27yo Moussa Sissoko's 300+ when we bought him, then you are the one being ridiculous. Sissoko had nearly 50 caps when we bought him, Ndombele's 6 are made up of 1 meaningful start against Andorra, two friendly starts and the rest as subs.

Moura had played over 230 games for PSG and had 35 caps when we bought him. See the difference between that and Lo Celso's 27 starts for Betis and 18 starts for PSG the season before, and 4 meaningful starts for Argentina and a handful of friendlies?

And most of Sessegnon's 100 odd appearances were in 2nd tier championship and not a single full cap. 26 starts in top flight football. Slightly different to Aurier's 230 games of top flight football, inc 80 at one of Europe's top clubland 26 caps.


Are you getting the gist now? The players we have bought obviously have some experience and "profile" but it is different to those I compared them to, they are much earlier on the career path and are much less exposed with more potential than the players I compared them to.

Blimey - how the hell did you manage to squeeze SISSOKO into a conversation about signing supposedly inexperienced players under 25 ... it's frankly unbelievable ... obsessed much?

These are your own words ....

But this summer we've bought 4 players, two 23yos, a 19yo and an 18yo - not one well established, proven player, seasoned international etc

I pointed out that there are plenty of proven established players under 25 and that indeed by any reckoning both Ndombele and Lo Celso fall into that category ... that's why they cost fortunes.

You come back by comparing them with a 27 year old Sissoko? ... are you being serious?
 
Blimey - how the hell did you manage to squeeze SISSOKO into a conversation about signing supposedly inexperienced players under 25 ... it's frankly unbelievable ... obsessed much?


Once again, I really think you need to read things properly, understand the full context, and then put together some kind of coherent response instead of blowing your load too quickly.

So this:


I'm not so sure, these are young players - (23 TNd, LC and 19 Sess, 18 JC) - he seemed to wanting us to buy slightly older more experienced players, we've gone back to buying younger players with potential to develop again.

Was put into further context with this:

It wasn't just "older" per se, but more experienced/proven/profile players, around the time (2016 ish) we gave him more say in transfers, he seemed to be making noises about how we need to compete with others and we bought players like (27yo Sissoko, 24yo Aurier, 25yo Moura, 31yo Llorente. I think these were compromised attempts by spurs/Poch to get nearer to that profile.

I know we also still bought some younger players like Sanchez and Foyth etc, I'm not saying it's black and white. But this summer we've bought 4 players, two 23yos, a 19yo and an 18yo - not one well established, proven player, seasoned international etc etc (great bunch of signings though IMO, except Clark who I know nothing about really) and Poch has said what he's said, about having little say in transfers. I don't believe this is black and white either, Poch says a lot of wonky gibberish at times, but he's been pretty truculent of late.

See, if you pay attention and read properly you will understand the context. You may still not agree with it, and be able to put some kind of coherent argument against it, but that will be better that the hyperbolic gibberish you spout half the time.

I pointed out that there are plenty of proven established players under 25 and that indeed by any reckoning both Ndombele and Lo Celso fall into that category ... that's why they cost fortunes.

Never said there wasn't. This is a bit like your "medal scouting" hypothesis isn't it?

You come back by comparing them with a 27 year old Sissoko? ... are you being serious?

I didn't "come back" with Sissoko, I'd already used his and Aurier's, Moura's and Llorente's signings as comparison to the business we have done this summer.
 
S'funny, cos of the players you mention Sissoko, Llorente & Lucas were all opportunistically cast as "levy signings" by his detractors for different reasons.

As for Lucas & Aurier: 24 & 25 are pre-peak development ages and I'd say don't fit the profile you're painting at all.

The simplest interpretation of his summer outburst was clearly; "I don't do the deals so fuck off with your dumb questions you media wankers" mixed with a tint of "hurry up Levy" thrown in. This whole 'different player profile'-drive you're highlighting is significantly short of anything Poch has actually said (or even implied)... If as you say, Poch is prone to "wonky gibberish" then why of all avenues to take would you choose to interpret it as things he hasn't 'hinted' towards.

Out of all our links and business over the last few years you only manage to cite 2 players that are above 25, FFS.

Most of the stuff I've read - including from Poch himself - as per the quotes I gave you - suggested that all those player Sissoko, Aurier, Moura, Llorente were far more influenced or driven by Poch than Levy.

Sissoko represented a massive departure from our (Levy's) business model, paying a then record (or second highest) fee in our history for a 27yo with a 90k 5 year deal, was committing potentially 55k to a player who would be 32 by the end of that deal and poor inherent value retention - that was by far the biggest potential cost of any transfer we'd ever done - based on the fact that other large deals were all for players much, much younger with much greater chance for retention or enhancement of value. Llorente was a deal that was just pure "now" write off, 15m plus a year's wages (so around 18-20m?) for one year, very un Levy.

As I said, it wasn't just about "age" purely, and age isn't the only gauge of where a player's at with their career development. Moura aged 25 had over 250 senior games on his clock, KWP will have about 60 if he plays most this season and most of next. Aurier likewise.

This summer felt much more like the Walker, Rose, Dier, Eriksen, Modric, Alli, Lamela, type business we did pre Poch.
 
The simplest interpretation of his summer outburst was clearly; "I don't do the deals so fuck off with your dumb questions you media wankers" mixed with a tint of "hurry up Levy" thrown in. This whole 'different player profile'-drive you're highlighting is significantly short of anything Poch has actually said (or even implied)... If as you say, Poch is prone to "wonky gibberish" then why of all avenues to take would you choose to interpret it as things he hasn't 'hinted' towards.

Yeah maybe, but you can't have it both ways, you can't take Poch literally when it suits and then infer bullshit when it doesn't.

I did qualify what I saids by saying I think the truth is possibly somewhere in between, with regards to what he said.

But I do think given other stuff he's said, and the general truculent nature of how he's said it, that something has changed, even if it's subtle.
 
Most of the stuff I've read - including from Poch himself - as per the quotes I gave you - suggested that all those player Sissoko, Aurier, Moura, Llorente were far more influenced or driven by Poch than Levy.

Except that the quotes you chose to provide contain nothing to evidence this theory... If they did, we wouldn't still be having the convesation and I probably wouldn't have even questioned your 'older' theory prior to that.

(I'm rhetorically curious about "most of the stuff" you've read that isn't including direct quotes from inside the club too, but feel free not to go there....)

Yeah maybe, but you can't have it both ways, you can't take Poch literally when it suits and then infer bullshit when it doesn't.

Can't have what both ways....? You're being needlessly 'slippery' throughout all this....

Your gut feeling is your prerogative. Why not own it for what it is instead?

Sissoko represented a massive departure from our (Levy's) business model, paying a then record (or second highest) fee in our history for a 27yo with a 90k 5 year deal, was committing potentially 55k to a player who would be 32 by the end of that deal and poor inherent value retention - that was by far the biggest potential cost of any transfer we'd ever done - based on the fact that other large deals were all for players much, much younger with much greater chance for retention or enhancement of value. Llorente was a deal that was just pure "now" write off, 15m plus a year's wages (so around 18-20m?) for one year, very un Levy.

As I said, it wasn't just about "age" purely, and age isn't the only gauge of where a player's at with their career development. Moura aged 25 had over 250 senior games on his clock, KWP will have about 60 if he plays most this season and most of next. Aurier likewise.

This summer felt much more like the Walker, Rose, Dier, Eriksen, Modric, Alli, Lamela, type business we did pre Poch.

You've completely glossed over all the relevant counterpoint to this chunk already and you citing a couple of players as evidence of a change of poilcy when the bulk of our activity suggests no change in profile; just more of the same but with higher price-tags in some cases. Regardless, what's KWP (an academy graduate) got to do with our recruitment policy in recent years....

For someone that swears by stats and tangible evidence there's a whole world of creative license being employed on your part here.
 
------------Kane------------
Dele--------------------Son
--NDombele--Lo Celso--
-----------Winks------------

----------Parrott----------
Sessegnon-------Moura
--Sissoko-------Lamela--
-----------Skipp-----------
 
Except that the quotes you chose to provide contain nothing to evidence this theory... If they did, we wouldn't still be having the convesation and I probably wouldn't have even questioned your 'older' theory prior to that.

Well, those quotes did feature our manager saying he has nothing to do with transfers and maybe his job description should be changed.

As I've already said, I don't believe that to be entirely true myself, but I could well believe that the roles and emphasis have shifted slightly (which I said previously). I'm not sure this is particularly outrageous or controversial.

(I'm rhetorically curious about "most of the stuff" you've read that isn't including direct quotes from inside the club too, but feel free not to go there....)

I'm equally curious to read your "inside the club" quotes suggesting these signings were foisted on Poch by Levy.

Your gut feeling is your prerogative. Why not own it for what it is instead?

Again with this silly bullshit. Do you caveat every post you make with "this is just my gut felling" or "this is my opinion". I didn't present any opinion on this piece of transfer business as "inside knowledge did I? So why the constant need to be a dick about it?

You've completely glossed over all the relevant counterpoint to this chunk already and you citing a couple of players as evidence of a change of poilcy when the bulk of our activity suggests no change in profile; just more of the same but with higher price-tags in some cases. Regardless, what's KWP (an academy graduate) got to do with our recruitment policy in recent years....

I didn't gloss over anything, I cited the slight change and then possible reversion of Poch's role, I hypothesised that there may have been a SLIGHT change in our process and focus - at no point did I state I had some revelatory inside knowledge - I provided quotes from Poch from the two dates 2016 and this summer and I gave examples of the business we then did immediately after 2016 and this summer.

I also stated that I don't think it's black and white or that we shifted from one clear policy to another polar opposite policy, that we still signed young players from2016-2018, and for the record I'm sure we'll sign more senior, experienced, higher profiled players in the near future.
 
Well, those quotes did feature our manager saying he has nothing to do with transfers and maybe his job description should be changed.

As I've already said, I don't believe that to be entirely true myself, but I could well believe that the roles and emphasis have shifted slightly (which I said previously). I'm not sure this is particularly outrageous or controversial.

For the Nth time... Nothing you've quoted alludes to do with the KIND of player we have been targeting.

(Christ, I know you're not this stupid.... I give up!)

I'm equally curious to read your "inside the club" quotes suggesting these signings were foisted on Poch by Levy.

Da fuck you talking about?

I didn't suggest anything of the sort... Read again; I refereed to fans peddling such a notion to get their digs in on the chairman, not that I believed it myself (let alone had proof that it was reality).

Again with this silly bullshit. Do you caveat every post you make with "this is just my gut felling" or "this is my opinion". I didn't present any opinion on this piece of transfer business as "inside knowledge did I? So why the constant need to be a dick about it?

Dick about what? ...How is it silly bullshit? I was trying to ascertain whether it WAS your gut feeling or evidence-based... I don't profess to have seen every fucking comment that comes out of the club. Maybe you'd read something that I hadn't.... Meanwhile I tend to assume you are more impartial than some about what goes on around the club (rather than eagerly jumping on any excuse to slag the CM or the manager)... Hence my curiosity about why you'd come to such conclusion to begin with....

Sorry if i've overestimated you or your willingness to discuss your opinion.

I didn't gloss over anything, I cited the slight change and then possible reversion of Poch's role, I hypothesised that there may have been a SLIGHT change in our process and focus - at no point did I state I had some revelatory inside knowledge - I provided quotes from Poch from the two dates 2016 and this summer and I gave examples of the business we then did immediately after 2016 and this summer.

I also stated that I don't think it's black and white or that we shifted from one clear policy to another polar opposite policy, that we still signed young players from2016-2018, and for the record I'm sure we'll sign more senior, experienced, higher profiled players in the near future.

Fabulous! At least it's perfectly clear now that it IS pure hypothesis on your part... All I was seeking to understand really.

Fucks sake, Blakey.... Talk about round the houses? :roll:

Look at my VERY first post in this exchange..... All the talk surrounding Poch's presser and change of job title (rather than TYPE OF PLAYER targeted) is largely irrelevant to all this at worst and at the very least a deviation of YOUR doing; not mine yet YOU'RE the one getting stroppy and calling me a dick....?!?!?

Forget it.
 
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For the Nth time... Nothing you've quoted alludes to do with the KIND of player we have been targeting.

(Christ, I know you're not this stupid.... I give up!)



Da fuck you talking about?

I didn't suggest anything of the sort... Read again; I refereed to fans peddling such a notion to get their digs in on the chairman, not that I believed it myself (let alone had proof that it was reality).



Dick about what? ...How is it silly bullshit? I was trying to ascertain whether it WAS your gut feeling or evidence-based... I don't profess to have seen every fucking comment that comes out of the club. Maybe you'd read something that I hadn't.... Meanwhile I tend to assume you are more impartial than some about what goes on around the club (rather than eagerly jumping on any excuse to slag the CM or the manager)... Hence my curiosity about why you'd come to such conclusion to begin with....

Sorry if i've overestimated you or your willingness to discuss your opinion.



Fabulous! At least it's perfectly clear now that it IS pure hypothesis on your part... All I was seeking to understand really.

Fucks sake, Blakey.... Talk about round the houses? :roll:

Look at my VERY fist post in this exchange..... All the talk surrounding Poch's presser and change of job title (rather than TYPE OF PLAYER targeted) is largely irrelevant to all this at worst and at the very least a deviation of YOUR doing; not mine yet YOU'RE the one getting stroppy and calling me a dick....?!?!?

Forget it.

The dick stuff is this:

Your gut feeling is your prerogative. Why not own it for what it is instead?

When did I do anything else than own it as an opinion?

(And then there was this omnipresent stat bollocks)


For the record, my opening post started with a question (clearly denoted by the question mark at the end of the sentence) suggesting it was not me stating something as fact, but hypothesising:

Coincidence that Poch is apparently less influential on transfers again - according to his "call me head coach" words - that we have one of the best windows we've had for many a year?
 
The dick stuff is this:



When did I do anything else than own it as an opinion?

And then there was this omnipresent stat bollocks:


For the record, my opening post started with a question (clearly denoted by the question mark at the end of the sentence, suggesting it was not me stating something as fact:

Whatever, Blakey... Whatever. :roll:
 
I know, right... :pocheyes:
giphy.gif
 
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