Spurs Youth 2018/19

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Youth did ok tonight , but I really do not see the fascination with George Marsh , average player at best .
Poch seems to be breeding all of the same player , winks , skipp , marsh , Bowden . He does not seem one bit interested in any of our exciting attacking players. I am beginning to understand why most of our attacking talent are moving on .

Or just possibly they look at the senior attacking talent we already have, all in their prime, and all on long contracts, and rightly recognise that their chances at Spurs will be severely limited.

Any 18-19-20 year old is not going to want to sit and wait five years to get a chance, not even at Spurs, footballers have relatively short careers they need to make the most of them. If our attacking young talent is good enough let them prove it elsewhere, we can always buy them back in five years time, that's just how it works.
 
Or just possibly they look at the senior attacking talent we already have, all in their prime, and all on long contracts, and rightly recognise that their chances at Spurs will be severely limited.

Any 18-19-20 year old is not going to want to sit and wait five years to get a chance, not even at Spurs, footballers have relatively short careers they need to make the most of them. If our attacking young talent is good enough let them prove it elsewhere, we can always buy them back in five years time, that's just how it works.

If Marcus Edwards has spent the last 12 months flirting about showing the odd moment of creative ability/productivity would it really have been much less useful than much of the flitting about that Moura does?

The body of Edwards work suggests we might have had a couple of less goals but a few more assists. And a 50m saving in fee and wages?

Same Onomah and Sissoko. Could Onomah have possibly been any less effective than Sissoko for the first 18-24 or 1500 minutes of his time here. Just imagine if Onomah had been allowed those minutes to make mistakes and be as bad as Sissoko was?

Maybe Onomah would now be performing at least to the basic competent standard Sissoko is - again for 50m less?

And again - exactly the same - KWP/Aurier.

I think that piece by WindyCOYS WindyCOYS was spot on. We always want to blame kids if the fail, but sometimes they are failed by those managing their development. Just because a kid doesn’t ultimately make it, doesn’t always mean the couldn’t have done,it sometimes just means that the numerous things that need to align, including lucky breaks (like you club wasting 25m on a mediocre player who plays in your position) and sometimes just being liked by the right coach, didn’t.
 
By the way, I thought Skipp was one of the most impressive debuts I’ve seen from our academy against Burnley, that opinion was enhanced for me last night.

18yo making his second start. I knew he had that busy dynamism, technique and composure but his passing impressed the shit out of me last night,

It just emphasises what I’ve said for a while (and WindyCOYS WindyCOYS article alluded to) that these young players can actually look even better when played with much better players in senior football.

The movement and game intelligence of those around them makes football easier to play in some respects (certainly when we have the ball - harder without it maybe).
 
U18s beat Swansea 1-0. Maghoma with the goal. Which now makes it:

P: 12
W: 10
D: 2
L: 0
Scored: 50
Conceded: 12

Top of the league and currently 2 points clear of Woolwich who are beating Brighton 2-1 at the moment. What a talented bunch of players we have coming through.
 
If Marcus Edwards has spent the last 12 months flirting about showing the odd moment of creative ability/productivity would it really have been much less useful than much of the flitting about that Moura does?

The body of Edwards work suggests we might have had a couple of less goals but a few more assists. And a 50m saving in fee and wages?

Same Onomah and Sissoko. Could Onomah have possibly been any less effective than Sissoko for the first 18-24 or 1500 minutes of his time here. Just imagine if Onomah had been allowed those minutes to make mistakes and be as bad as Sissoko was?

Maybe Onomah would now be performing at least to the basic competent standard Sissoko is - again for 50m less?

And again - exactly the same - KWP/Aurier.

I think that piece by WindyCOYS WindyCOYS was spot on. We always want to blame kids if the fail, but sometimes they are failed by those managing their development. Just because a kid doesn’t ultimately make it, doesn’t always mean the couldn’t have done,it sometimes just means that the numerous things that need to align, including lucky breaks (like you club wasting 25m on a mediocre player who plays in your position) and sometimes just being liked by the right coach, didn’t.

I get where you're coming from but no EPL manager, not even Poch, is going to play unproven teenagers over two 30m signings, both signed on his watch. It just isn't going to happen and nor should it.

Neither Onomah or Edwards have done anywhere near enough to justify replacing proven international players even when those players are going through a bad patch ...

Sissoko >>>>>>>>>>> Onomah
Moura >>>>>>>>>>> Edwards

That's just the way it is .... if you seriously believe Onomah or Edwards are better then why are they out on loan to lower divisions and not playing at a top European side? It's very probably because nobody else thinks they are at that level yet either ....

Whilst we are in the business of developing talent that doesn't come in out first eleven, you need to earn that place not just get 'given a go' .....
 
I get where you're coming from but no EPL manager, not even Poch, is going to play unproven teenagers over two 30m signings, both signed on his watch. It just isn't going to happen and nor should it.

Neither Onomah or Edwards have done anywhere near enough to justify replacing proven international players even when those players are going through a bad patch ...

Sissoko >>>>>>>>>>> Onomah
Moura >>>>>>>>>>> Edwards

That's just the way it is .... if you seriously believe Onomah or Edwards are better then why are they out on loan to lower divisions and not playing at a top European side? It's very probably because nobody else thinks they are at that level yet either ....

Whilst we are in the business of developing talent that doesn't come in out first eleven, you need to earn that place not just get 'given a go' .....

Also worth noting that Onomah DID get chances.

He didn't start a Premier League for us like Skipp did but he was getting plenty of game time and minutes at the same age. By the age of 19 years old, Onomah had played 800+ minutes for the first team, across 5 different competitions. (Premier League, FA Cup, League Cup, Europa League, Champions League) and starting in 3 of them (Europa League, League Cup and FA Cup). He used to be a talent that Pochettino wasn't worried about bringing off the bench in big games (North London Derby, Liverpool at home just to name two when we were drawing both games)

It's whatever happened in the build up to the 2017-18 season that's blurry. Because Pochettino has waxed lyrical about Onomah in the past and wrote as much in his book but then it all changed and Onomah has since been on two disappointing loans at Championship level.

Compare that to Harry Winks who was 18 years old when Pochettino took over and only played ONCE at the age of 18 under Pochettino and that was coming off the bench for 4 minutes in a Europa League game. In fact by the time he was 20 years old, Winks hadn't even started a single game for the club and barely played any more than 300 minutes.

But let's not forget that Onomah is still only 21 years old. Younger than Harry Winks. Younger than Luke Amos. One year older than George Marsh who made his senior debut for us last night. I'd love to think that the whole "clean slate" thing is true and Pochettino gives him another chance because he has attributes that can be useful at this level, especially as a squad player.
 
U18s beat Swansea 1-0. Maghoma with the goal. Which now makes it:

P: 12
W: 10
D: 2
L: 0
Scored: 50
Conceded: 12

Top of the league and currently 2 points clear of Woolwich who are beating Brighton 2-1 at the moment. What a talented bunch of players we have coming through.
DwJE2b-XgAALVAA.jpg


What is worth a mention too is that Wells has rotated the squad again so a number of good players weren't involved today.

Whilst I absolutely agree we have a number of good players coming through from the academy at the moment (probably the best for almost 10 years when the Mason, Townsend et al group were coming through), I think a lot of credit has to go to Wells who gets the lads playing well as a team, whoever plays. Seems to be an exceptionally able coach.
 
I get where you're coming from but no EPL manager, not even Poch, is going to play unproven teenagers over two 30m signings, both signed on his watch. It just isn't going to happen and nor should it.

Neither Onomah or Edwards have done anywhere near enough to justify replacing proven international players even when those players are going through a bad patch ...

Sissoko >>>>>>>>>>> Onomah
Moura >>>>>>>>>>> Edwards

That's just the way it is .... if you seriously believe Onomah or Edwards are better then why are they out on loan to lower divisions and not playing at a top European side? It's very probably because nobody else thinks they are at that level yet either ....

Whilst we are in the business of developing talent that doesn't come in out first eleven, you need to earn that place not just get 'given a go' .....

I think you’ve missed the point slightly. I’m questioning the rational, short termism and different approaches and standards that get applied.

When you have talents that you know have huge potential ( and Poch can see they have huge potential because he’s praised them) should we even be buying players like Sissoko and Aurier - who have both taken 18 months or two years themselves to develop into viable options since buying them.

Of course right now Sissoko looks more viable than Onomah, but what if Onomah had been given the 3000+ odd minutes in the last two years that Sissoko took to look just competent? How much would Onomah have improved (if Sissoko has why wouldn’t Onomah - he was more talented as an 18-20yo than Sissoko was - trust me I watched about 100 of Sissoko’s early games)

Being coached by Poch, playing with Eriksen, Alli, Kane, Dembele, Wanyama, etc etc and played in a CM3 not as a right winger?

Same KWP, there is no way he’d be any less viable (he isn’t now after about 5 starts) than Aurier (another player who I watched most of his early career games). If he’d had those minutes that Aurier has had.

Look at Skipp now. He’s already better with and without the ball than Sissoko and passes it better than Dier.

What if we’d done as we promised Edwards dad/agent and carried on giving him minutes two years ago? Would we have had to spend money on a flibity gibbit like Moura who mostly chases his own tail? Who knows but it took Moura 6 months to even get a look in, and even now he’s squad player.

The Edwards one is debatable, but we’ve got to change the way we think. Buying quality or potential quality is fine. Buying players we already know Can’t exceed the potential of ones we have been coaching for ten years seems daft to me.

Im not saying aren’t as good as ones we’ve got here, I’m saying if we have a kid in whom we see very high potential, we need to seriously weigh that up against a player who might be “quite good“ now but will never be “outstanding” and we know that because they’ve already played 300 plus games or so.

And I am not saying they are guaranteed to fulfil that potential, but buying a player who has already played 300 games and has reached his potential and that hasn’t amounted to anything special certainly isn’t a sustainable or smart policy. You end up with decent but average footballers with depreciated value.
 
The body of Edwards work suggests we might have had a couple of less goals but a few more assists.
No it doesn't actually. In 43 games (at U23 level, youth FA Cup, EFL Cup and the Dutch League) Edwards has 10 goals and 8 assists. In 38 games in all comps (vastly higher level), Lucas has 9 goals and 6 assists.
 
Not up to scratch on a lot of our youth players but from what I gather we can field the following u23 team based on overall squad members:

Brandon Austin
Kyle Walker-Peters
Juan Foyth
Davinson Sanchez
Anthony Georgiou
Oliver Skipp
Harry Winks
Josh Onomah
Dele Alli
Marcus Edwards
Troy Parrott

Bench:
Alfie Whiteman
Cameron Carter-Vickers
TJ Eyoma
George Marsh
Jack Roles
Tashan Oakley-Boothe
Kaziah Sterling

These seem to be our best u23 players at the club at present. If anyone has any insight into anyone I've missed out that could be worth genuinely noting I'd love to keep an eye on them.
 
Not up to scratch on a lot of our youth players but from what I gather we can field the following u23 team based on overall squad members:

Brandon Austin
Kyle Walker-Peters
Juan Foyth
Davinson Sanchez
Anthony Georgiou
Oliver Skipp
Harry Winks
Josh Onomah
Dele Alli
Marcus Edwards
Troy Parrott

Bench:
Alfie Whiteman
Cameron Carter-Vickers
TJ Eyoma
George Marsh
Jack Roles
Tashan Oakley-Boothe
Kaziah Sterling

These seem to be our best u23 players at the club at present. If anyone has any insight into anyone I've missed out that could be worth genuinely noting I'd love to keep an eye on them.

Just need to find a competition to play an u23 side in !

There's a few players who might be either on the fringes of that squad or might take one of the places in it, such as Japhet Tanganga (CB), Jamie Bowden (CM), Sam Shashoua (AM), but its almost going to come down to their current form - and on that Alfie Whiteman has had more appearances on first team bench than Brandon Austin atm so I'd guess the club would switch those two round.

Interesting though that half of that first X1 is already playing in our first team.
 
No it doesn't actually. In 43 games (at U23 level, youth FA Cup, EFL Cup and the Dutch League) Edwards has 10 goals and 8 assists. In 38 games in all comps (vastly higher level), Lucas has 9 goals and 6 assists.

Not sure that disproves my theory. I think playing with better players can enhance a player like Edwards chances of producing, rather than harm it.

Look at Skipp and KWP. KWP has 5 assists in his last two starts at RB. Skipp got 2 assists on Friday. Playing with Son, Alli, Kane etc is far more likely to see someone create and be created for than playing with Sterling, Tracey and Georgiou, no?
 
Not sure that disproves my theory. I think playing with better players can enhance a player like Edwards chances of producing, rather than harm it.

Look at Skipp and KWP. KWP has 5 assists in his last two starts at RB. Skipp got 2 assists on Friday. Playing with Son, Alli, Kane etc is far more likely to see someone create and be created for than playing with Sterling, Tracey and Georgiou, no?

I suspect that the number of assists might be skewed by the fact that the likes of Son, Alli and Kane will convert chances more regularly than Sterling Tracey and Georgiou

Of course it can also be argued that playing at a higher level its more difficult to both create and take chances.

Its probably true that a very talented youth player will play better with better players around him, but its sometimes difficult to identify talented youth players as factors such as them being more physically developed than their peer group may make them seem better than they are, which is likely to be found out when they play with the men in the first team and that physical advantage is no longer there. Equally players talents and indeed physical development develop in a non linear way, with consequences for both early and late developers.
 
Not sure that disproves my theory. I think playing with better players can enhance a player like Edwards chances of producing, rather than harm it.

Look at Skipp and KWP. KWP has 5 assists in his last two starts at RB. Skipp got 2 assists on Friday. Playing with Son, Alli, Kane etc is far more likely to see someone create and be created for than playing with Sterling, Tracey and Georgiou, no?
How many times did you have to change your pants on Friday night?
 
Former Spur Shaq Coulthirst scored a penalty for non league Barnet to knock out Championship high flyers Sheffield United.

Sadly never developed as we had hoped after his high point of an away hat trick v Barcelona when Spanish press were printing articles saying Barcelona wanted both Coulthirst and Alex Pritchard,


NB. Shaq also had a goal disallowed for offside today
 
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By the way, I thought Skipp was one of the most impressive debuts I’ve seen from our academy against Burnley, that opinion was enhanced for me last night.

18yo making his second start. I knew he had that busy dynamism, technique and composure but his passing impressed the shit out of me last night,

It just emphasises what I’ve said for a while (and WindyCOYS WindyCOYS article alluded to) that these young players can actually look even better when played with much better players in senior football.

The movement and game intelligence of those around them makes football easier to play in some respects (certainly when we have the ball - harder without it maybe).
I also really liked that he never hides and always offers himself. Also very important to remember that it's very early days. Once he gets some more matches under the belt and settles in, he'll be very, very impressive imo
 
Not sure that disproves my theory. I think playing with better players can enhance a player like Edwards chances of producing, rather than harm it.

Look at Skipp and KWP. KWP has 5 assists in his last two starts at RB. Skipp got 2 assists on Friday. Playing with Son, Alli, Kane etc is far more likely to see someone create and be created for than playing with Sterling, Tracey and
Not sure that disproves my theory. I think playing with better players can enhance a player like Edwards chances of producing, rather than harm it.
 
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