Liverpool away - 11th Feb - 1730hrs kick off

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Hang on. You misunderstood my post. In reply to your request for patience, I asked you to name a bigger club than Spurs that ain't won the title since 1961. The 3 you mention have all won the title in that time.
Exactly, and that's the point. They are nowhere close to being as big as we are now. We're on the cusp of becoming a proper top side in the modern era. Are they? Not even close....and Everton are a much "bigger" side than us if you're going to measure it in title wins, which was your argument above.
 
Hey. That's all well and good. just pointing out your original point is a little flawed since Spurs clearly have the least amount of quality depth vs the the top sides. Or do you not grasp that ?
You were responding to a post discussing how easy it is to add that depth in a January transfer window.

Or do you not grasp that?
 
Just musing about the "stellar signings" argument.
We've had stellar signings over the years- in my time starting with 2 World Cup winners in 1978.
Since then we've had the likes of Gascoigne, Lineker, Klinsmann, Ginola, Modric, Berbatov, Bale etc. And we still haven't won a league title. .
The last 3 you mention are the only 3 from the ENIC era. And they most certainly were NOT stellar signings. When they became stellar names, we fucking sold them.
 
That shd be Dier's last game in defence

Play him where he's most effective in front of a back four
I completely agree. Play him alongside Vic and push Dembele further forward in a 3 with Eriksen and Dele behind Kane and then have Son back on the bench as an impact sub. Problem is, we have no defensive cover apart from RB where I think Tripper is very nearly as good as Kyle. If Dier goes back into the middle, do we put Wimmer into CB with Toby until Jan comes back? What about CCV? I've been impressed every time I've seen him play, he's certainly looked better than Wimmer IMO. Could we not recall Fazio if Poch doesn't fancy Wimmer or CCV? How can we be second in the league and in the title race for the second year running but still have no quality cover at the heart of our defence. Is Ben Davies good enough to cover Danny? I know he had a mare today but to be honest he was 2v1 all game with no help at all so not sure he could have done anything better and I've liked him in other games he has featured.

To be honest, I think with our strongest 11 on the pitch the only quality options we would have on the bench would be Vorm, Son and Trippier. That's nowhere near enough to challenge for a title. We're punching well above our weight with our squad because our first 11 is so good but one injury and we're in trouble.

What does everybody think?
 
The last 3 you mention are the only 3 from the ENIC era. And they most certainly were NOT stellar signings. When they became stellar names, we fucking sold them.
Ok. I will give you that one. Would you give me VDV as a globally recognised name when we bought him?
However, who should we have brought in during the January window that would have prevented that shit show today? Lloris aside (it could have been a cricket score inside the first half without him) not one global brand name player could have been everywhere to cover the individual fuck ups that were happening all over the pitch.

poch also got it wrong today. He isn't perfect. But every time we lose a game, I don't see why it means that we should have bought some player who would, by definition, have prevented the manager getting it tactically wrong, or the rest of the team making fuck up after fuck up. I mean, Wanyama has been excellent so far, yes? He was atrocious today. So many piss poor performances that we could have had Pele & Maradona (in their prime) on the pitch & Mane would still have made Davies look like a Sunday league player.
 
You were responding to a post discussing how easy it is to add that depth in a January transfer window.

Or do you not grasp that?
I never said it was easy. I simply said Spurs lack of depth (compared to the other big sides) warranted a move or two. Its a fair pov for me which is far from "clueless nonsense"
 
I never said it was easy. I simply said Spurs lack of depth (compared to the other big sides) warranted a move or two. Its a fair pov for me which is far from "clueless nonsense"
No, it is expecting signings like Isco or Aubameyang to be easy to make in January that is what I referred to as clueless.

You've trotting in, failed to read the exchange properly, and you're not digging yourself out of a hole. Learn to read.
 
That game had nothing to do with technical ability (Davies aside) they pressed and harried us, the game was stop start and littered with fouls the dippers showed no quality on the ball too, who in their team did anything amazing on the ball, don't go there with Mane too.
Of course it had to do with technical quality. Watch it again and compare their touch and passing accuracy to ours. It's in frantic games like that when there is no space or time on the ball that the best technical teams shine through usually. Dembele and Toby didn't look out of place but the rest of them were taking heavy touches and passing to the opposition more often than not. If a team come at you like Liverpool did today they leave themselves open at the back and a very good technical team would pick them apart (Barcelona on their day for example would have played through and around them and smashed them by multiple goals) but we're not technically good enough to create the extra bit of space and/or time required to do that. At least today we weren't!
 
sorry, don't understand your spurious argument.
Try again.
You would think we normally win at the big teams & then certain people are fickle when we lose in one.
But the fact is we rarely win away to a big team.
So sadly there is nothing to be fickle about.
Its the norm.
Similar to people being called trophy hunters despite our recent history.
 
No, it is expecting signings like Isco or Aubameyang to be easy to make in January that is what I referred to as clueless.

You've trotting in, failed to read the exchange properly, and you're not digging yourself out of a hole. Learn to read.

I read the exchange just fine. He finished with "whoever" simply meaning a move in the JTW to address the lack of depth. It's a fair pov which I agree with considering Spurs depth is the weakest vs the rest of the top sides. Maybe less of talking down to others here. More of simply respecting others for simply disagreeing with your POV. But nice use of the bold around "learn to read". Let me give it a try ....."Whoever". Nailed it. Lmao. PS We on the same sides here. FYI
 
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Well with our two first choice left footed defenders, Mane wouldn't have had anywhere near as much time or freedom. So it's an immediate agree. Stick Lamela in there as well & you get a proper tackling AM rather than sonny, who almost got himself sent off in the first half for something that barely resembled a tackle, then didn't make another tackle for the rest of the game.
True, if we ignore the home game against them.
Lamela gave away a pen & struggled defensively as did the team.
Rose was caught out a few times too but was good going forward.
Lucky to get away with a draw in that game.
 
I completely agree. Play him alongside Vic and push Dembele further forward in a 3 with Eriksen and Dele behind Kane and then have Son back on the bench as an impact sub. Problem is, we have no defensive cover apart from RB where I think Tripper is very nearly as good as Kyle. If Dier goes back into the middle, do we put Wimmer into CB with Toby until Jan comes back? What about CCV? I've been impressed every time I've seen him play, he's certainly looked better than Wimmer IMO. Could we not recall Fazio if Poch doesn't fancy Wimmer or CCV? How can we be second in the league and in the title race for the second year running but still have no quality cover at the heart of our defence. Is Ben Davies good enough to cover Danny? I know he had a mare today but to be honest he was 2v1 all game with no help at all so not sure he could have done anything better and I've liked him in other games he has featured.

To be honest, I think with our strongest 11 on the pitch the only quality options we would have on the bench would be Vorm, Son and Trippier. That's nowhere near enough to challenge for a title. We're punching well above our weight with our squad because our first 11 is so good but one injury and we're in trouble.

What does everybody think?

I could argue for Wimmer alongside Toby, but a 4 at the back regardless of who played would have struggled today. With the benefit of hindsight 3-5-1-1 would most likely have contained Liverpool better, but who knows if the result would have been different.

Dier is a quality player, out of position and out of form. A rest would maybe help him, but overall this season his contribution is immense. He's still very young for a key position.

We can't bring Fazio back, not that I would understand why we would with Wimmer there as an option. CCV is a good player, but it's too soon to throw him into a game like this one. Overall I don't feel like we lack cover in the middle of defence.

Davies is good enough to cover Rose. Rose is a great left back. Davies is a good left back. The difference is minimal, but it's there. No club with a great full back has an equally great full back sitting on the bench waiting usually. Full back is a forgiving position, maybe the most forgiving on any pitch. But it's also very key to how we are set up so I can only assume that the coaching staff see Davies as good enough, but as I say he is good and not great.

Bench wise I feel the problem is form and not quality. Jansen, Sissoko, Winks - the three changes today - should generally be effective enough. Winks I thought was excellent again today. Jansen is a puzzle. his hold up play is good but no balls really went up and into him ( and generally don't ) today and Sissoko. Well god knows what on earth is going on there ? Guy was running about like he had sandbags in his legs.

If Lamela, Jan & Rose were fit then options from the bench would be a lot less of a concern. Add a bit of form for one or two of the others then again we would not be in bad shape overall squad wise. The injuries are not helping, but they are not much we can hide behind. Time to mix it up in the next three games.
 
Of course it had to do with technical quality. Watch it again and compare their touch and passing accuracy to ours. It's in frantic games like that when there is no space or time on the ball that the best technical teams shine through usually. Dembele and Toby didn't look out of place but the rest of them were taking heavy touches and passing to the opposition more often than not. If a team come at you like Liverpool did today they leave themselves open at the back and a very good technical team would pick them apart (Barcelona on their day for example would have played through and around them and smashed them by multiple goals) but we're not technically good enough to create the extra bit of space and/or time required to do that. At least today we weren't!
We are a very technically gifted side, one of the best in the league. Have you not seen us play this year and last? Do me a favour mate.
We were out fought, out muscled and out played today. They pressed us very well (just as we have done to other teams), they closed all our passing lanes. Many teams have tried to mix it with us and we have picked them apart and passed and played through their press. Today we were no where near. TODAY.

Call it for what it is, a shite performance. Please don't tell me to watch it again, I don't need to, I know what I saw, we were shit, they were very good.
There was very little technical quality on show from both sides. Nothing from us though, TODAY.
 
True, if we ignore the home game against them.
Lamela gave away a pen & struggled defensively as did the team.
Rose was caught out a few times too but was good going forward.
Lucky to get away with a draw in that game.
Rose scored in that one iirc?
I thought we deserved a draw overall, but probably looking at it with a hazy memory & rose (sic) coloured glasses.
 
Rose scored in that one iirc?
I thought we deserved a draw overall, but probably looking at it with a hazy memory & rose (sic) coloured glasses.
Coutinho missed a cupcake in the first five minutes , Mane scored but was a whisker offsides and his overall pace terrorized the BL all afternoon. Spurs were a bit fortunate to get a point in the end
 
No, it is expecting signings like Isco or Aubameyang to be easy to make in January ...

I assume that's a reference to an earlier post of mine mentioning those two players...

I wasn't suggesting we could have bought either of them, although, you know, we actually could have if we'd bowled into Madrid or Dortmund with our cocks out and 40 willion sterling in cash on the table and the promise of 120k a week and so forth. Yeah, I know, that not realistic, we can't dare to do like that, but it's still theoretically possible. That said, I'm grown-up enough to know that the real world doesn't work like that for the likes of us.

Still, we could have scouted players a level or two down who might have strengthened what is evidently a weak squad past the starting 11+3, promised them trophies and glory, pushed our existing starters and the yootdem looking to break through...
 
Happy Clappy brigade: "You can't win every game!"

Our away form 2016-17:
Played 17
Won 5
Drawn 7
Lost 5

Lost to Liverpool (League cup), Monaco, Chelsea, United and now Liverpool again.

1) That record isn't acceptable for a top 6 club, never mind a top 4 and especially not for a title challenger.

Chelsea: 14 away games, won 9
City: 20 away games, won 12
Woolwich: 18 away games, won 11
Liverpool: 17 away games, won 9
United: 17 away games, won 9

Please don't say "We can't win every game, you expect too much". I don't expect to win every game, but no one can say that our performance today and our away record this year is a positive.

2) A major worry is that our away form carries on into Wembley when we move there next season. We struggled in the Champions League there. The only thing propping our season up at the moment is our incredible home form - if we take away next season things could look pretty glum.

3) This causes us to be knocked out of many competitions, most notably Europe.

We got to Dortmund and lose 3-0 - knocked out of EL
We go to Fiorentina and lose 2-0 - knocked out of EL

We're not going to qualify from the CL, get far in the EL and it makes it very difficult for us to win an FA or League cup if you're only winning 1 third of your away games.

I don't expect us to win every away game, but our away form is a huge worry right now. It's regressed from last season. And before you cunt me off, saying I talk shit, before the game Poch said, “We are looking at that,” Pochettino said. “[We struggle at] top-six clubs because we have had some draws and some losses. It’s true that this is a good opportunity to change that stat.”

After the game Poch said that we will "Need to fight for top 6". Top 6. This speaks volumes and clearly shows he's worried about the top 4. Luckily many of our games left are home games.
When poch says stuff like that they all play deaf & dumb.
 
Are you suggesting we lost because we went at them!? We were in their box once.

We lost from sitting back and getting caught in possession, not from being caught out attacking them

Sorry if I wasn't clear. I was basically saying that the players he put out and the instructions he gave were most likely designed to try to take the initiative. Problem is that we could also see the glaring problem we would have down the left hand side and the lack of physicality/defensive work rate of son and eriksen. So it looked to me like Liverpool stopped us even being able to launch meaningful attacks and resorted to playing it around in our own half under pressure.

It's all hindsight, but this isn't the first pressing team we've struggled against
 
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