We need more craft and creativity in midfield

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

There's an interactive heatmap on here:
http://www.realmadrid.com/en/news/2014/04/0-4-now-for-the-decima-in-lisbon?pid=1383833298379

I can't figure out much from the heat map what the formation was, at times looked like 433 but also looked like a 442 at times too.

Indeed, but it's a bit beside the point as regardless there are plenty of teams who use wingbacks in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, including Real Madrid throughout their season. They set up officially in a 4-3-3 yesterday, and regardless of where there players ended up throughout the match due to team counter tactics or individual player movement, the point is that wingbacks are very much used in such formations.

Whether or not he wants to point out individual players in the squad that he wants out is another thing altogether, but the entire thing that spent way out of whack was his misinterpretation of a very simple, single counterpoint.
 
Indeed, but it's a bit beside the point as regardless there are plenty of teams who use wingbacks in a 4-3-3 or 4-2-3-1, including Real Madrid throughout their season. They set up officially in a 4-3-3 yesterday, and regardless of where there players ended up throughout the match due to team counter tactics or individual player movement, the point is that wingbacks are very much used in such formations.

Whether or not he wants to point out individual players in the squad that he wants out is another thing altogether, but the entire thing that spent way out of whack was his misinterpretation of a very simple, single counterpoint.

Of course, there's a flaw with the idea that getting attacked down the wings can be countered by removing all players from the wings.

I think a formation without WBs could work, but considering the prem is all tika taka these days, we should be adopting what Real & Atletico have developed as inspiration for cutting through the tippy tappy teams.

Passing & Possession didn't work for AVB - Harry got our thrills through stuff like Madrid - beautiful football takes three passes from box to box and a quality finish, IMO.
 
Of course, there's a flaw with the idea that getting attacked down the wings can be countered by removing all players from the wings.

I think a formation without WBs could work, but considering the prem is all tika taka these days, we should be adopting what Real & Atletico have developed as inspiration for cutting through the tippy tappy teams.

Passing & Possession didn't work for AVB - Harry got our thrills through stuff like Madrid - beautiful football takes three passes from box to box and a quality finish, IMO.

I wouldn't use the term "tika taka" necessarily to describe the modern Prem, but it is damn close regardless. I'd say a bit more accurate of a description is that it's moved overwhelmingly toward the Dutch "Total Voetbol" philosophy, the better teams in particular. The passing of tika taka is certainly prevalent, but for them possession is defense, while in Total Voetbol with more risk-taking comes the consequential tactics that must be created to counter the inevitable dispossession after the frequency of more elaborate and thereby error-prone attempts.

Wingbacks work in both philosophies nonetheless. The ideal player and example of the position in the Prem is Pablo Zabaleta. I rate Kyle Walker quite highly actually, as he's a less intelligent but more athletic player that is somewhat reminiscent of the City player. I agree that Rose and certainly not Naughton should be our ideal players going forward, and I've no doubt the club plans to address such an issue. But disregarding wingbacks altogether because of the ineptitude of our own is a waste of consideration of good tactics. Once again, balance is the key. In the modern game, the best teams use quicker, smaller players in wide positions to get those players into good positions. This coupled with a balanced midfield of ball-winners and distributors provides for unpredictable and efficient-in-possession conditions to provide plenty of opportunities while preventing opponents from easily countering.
 
I wouldn't use the term "tika taka" necessarily to describe the modern Prem, but it is damn close regardless. I'd say a bit more accurate of a description is that it's moved overwhelmingly toward the Dutch "Total Voetbol" philosophy, the better teams in particular. The passing of tika taka is certainly prevalent, but for them possession is defense, while in Total Voetbol with more risk-taking comes the consequential tactics that must be created to counter the inevitable dispossession after the frequency of more elaborate and thereby error-prone attempts.

Wingbacks work in both philosophies nonetheless. The ideal player and example of the position in the Prem is Pablo Zabaleta. I rate Kyle Walker quite highly actually, as he's a less intelligent but more athletic player that is somewhat reminiscent of the City player. I agree that Rose and certainly not Naughton should be our ideal players going forward, and I've no doubt the club plans to address such an issue. But disregarding wingbacks altogether because of the ineptitude of our own is a waste of consideration of good tactics. Once again, balance is the key. In the modern game, the best teams use quicker, smaller players in wide positions to get those players into good positions. This coupled with a balanced midfield of ball-winners and distributors provides for unpredictable and efficient-in-possession conditions to provide plenty of opportunities while preventing opponents from easily countering.


Perhaps.

I'm not writing off our wingbacks just yet. Namely rose, fryers or naughton.

I've seen enough from Fryers that he will make a quality CB that can cover LB without needing a tampon, Naughton is a solid 'Gary Neville' mould of player who needs a bit of mentoring and confidenc, and Rose, like Townsend, needs direction and coaching - reign in the shots & crosses, look to develop accuracy, and get rose to decide if he wants to defend or be a LM again - he seems reluctant to stick to defending.
 
Perhaps.

I'm not writing off our wingbacks just yet. Namely rose, fryers or naughton.

I've seen enough from Fryers that he will make a quality CB that can cover LB without needing a tampon, Naughton is a solid 'Gary Neville' mould of player who needs a bit of mentoring and confidenc, and Rose, like Townsend, needs direction and coaching - reign in the shots & crosses, look to develop accuracy, and get rose to decide if he wants to defend or be a LM again - he seems reluctant to stick to defending.

I agree with each of your assessments. And indeed as I said before, I think we can confidently assume any new manager will be very aggressive in dealing with corrections needed at least in our back line.
 
The lineup was indeed officially a 4-3-3

http://www.marca.com/2014/04/30/en/football/real_madrid/1398842804.html

"Ancelotti's 4-4-2 tied Guardiola's men down.Real Madridcouldn't have done it better; it was their night -a night to go down in history. Gareth Bale understood the importance of the event. He took a few steps further down the park to help out Carvajal, another perfect cog in the Real machinery. The Welshman was signed for nights just like this one in mind."

 
http://www.marca.com/2014/04/30/en/football/real_madrid/1398842804.html

"Ancelotti's 4-4-2 tied Guardiola's men down.Real Madridcouldn't have done it better; it was their night -a night to go down in history. Gareth Bale understood the importance of the event. He took a few steps further down the park to help out Carvajal, another perfect cog in the Real machinery. The Welshman was signed for nights just like this one in mind."
4-4-2 without the ball, 4-3-3 with it basically
 
Back
Top Bottom