Sorry mate, didn't mean to come across like i was mugging you off, if anything i agreed with you.
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Sorry mate, didn't mean to come across like i was mugging you off, if anything i agreed with you.
For me I'm happy with 5 (Eriksen,Capoue, Chicheres) of the signings of which 2 (Soldado, Lamela) have had disappointing seasons for different reasons but I have hope for next season.
Although it's not a popular view I have now written off Chadli and Paulinho. Don't think either of them have the mentality which I don't think will improve.
Although it's not a popular view I have now written off Chadli and Paulinho. Don't think either of them have the mentality which I don't think will improve.
Agreed, but frankly you're not doing your argument justice when you blatantly misspell player's names that aren't complicated to begin with.
It's a bit of a different league regarding what it takes to succeed, but frankly 90% of the talk about PL proven players is just hot air having to do with the British footballing establishment's latent (or is it explicit?) undercurrent of anti-intellectualism and xenophobia. Players involved in the England set-up tend to be wildly overrated by the English footballing press, whereas the press clutches at opportunities to prove that foreign players aren't compatible with British football.
I guess the fact that the overwhelming majority of world class players in the PL are foreign escapes them, no?
Please, please do explain to me, how you can say you have hope for Soldado, and yet have completely written off Chadli, who's shown more promise, younger. and cost 7 mill.
Also, when you say you've written them off, that means you're saying we should basically "scrap them" because they'll never do anything and we won't recoup most of the money.
Why do you need to "write them off" anyway? what does that achieve.
And this season has hardly been a fair one to judge, has it. Just look at the player of the year thread. Even our best players haven't entirely covered themselves in glory.
You seem to be confusing "PL proven" with "English"
Also i disagree with the first point (actually i disagree with most of what you said..) Id say it's almost undeniable that each of the top leagues vary in their styles of play, it only makes sense that some, not all but some players will take time to adapt. Every player is different so making a list (I'm aware it wasn't your list) is completely pointless, no players are the same. And even players that play in the same position can be completely different. Mentality, strength, speed, style of play can all vary. For every player that has a fantastic first season in the PL, theres probably a similar amount that struggled, even world class players. Suarez, Henry, Shevchenko... Didn't exactly set the world alight in their first season.
Just goes to show how anonymous his season has been, don't you think?
Don't think he'll come good. Maybe too early to cut him loose in the summer, but I'm just not seeing it.
After the WBA - what would Tim's view be on Chiriches ?
Then again if we played a natural DM, i'm sure the DM would have floated back in beside Chiriches when Kabs went fwd.
I noted in the replay of the WBA 3rd goal that Chadli was 15 mtrs away. Tim can blame Vlad but our formation was wrong to start the game.
Then again if we played a natural DM, i'm sure the DM would have floated back in beside Chiriches when Kabs went fwd.
I noted in the replay of the WBA 3rd goal that Chadli was 15 mtrs away. Tim can blame Vlad but our formation was wrong to start the game.
Let's just get them all in at pre season under a manager who knows what he's doing, on a clean slate.
Eriksen has come good, Chadli and Soldado showed glimpses of Brilliance. Fuck knows what Lamela is capable of and Vlad has the tools if not the brain / will.
It's been a stumbling bumbling season and I can't wait for it to end so we can get in, regroup and get someone in who knows what they are doing.
Hopefully LVG or Ancelloti will get this shit show back on track
Eriksen has come good, Chadli and Soldado showed glimpses of Brilliance. Fuck knows what Lamela is capable of and Vlad has the tools if not the brain / will.
It's been a stumbling bumbling season and I can't wait for it to end so we can get in, regroup and get someone in who knows what they are doing.
Hopefully LVG or Ancelloti will get this shit show back on track
Thanks Wordsworth.
Don't give him the oxygen...
Well at least if you do give him a match, soaked in that much alcohol he'll go up lie a brandy soaked Christmas pudding.
I genuinely hope his piss stained electric blanket goes up in flames with him wrapped snugly inside tonight.
Not mistaking, just putting it out there.
Hey, I've said it's a bit different, but you're also misstating my remarks. Of course, I never said that ALL foreign players light up the Premier League, only that most of the narrative in the press is hot air.
I'm sympathetic to your point that making lists of who has succeeded and who has failed in the PL is a bit pointless, but in my opinion the evidence is somewhat damning. Either one of us can create lists of players that have or have not succeeded in the Premier League all day long to try to prove either side of the story; it's confirmation bias through and through, BUT that doesn't mean that it can be ignored. Before many of this league's finest players were "PL Proven" they were often caricatured as expensive, luxurious, and unnecessary foreign imports.
Chasing "PL Proven" players is needlessly narrowing our focus imo. There are absolute gems out there, and I honestly feel that narrowing our focus thusly is a quicker road to mediocrity than otherwise. Hell, I remember a lot of the commentators at the beginning of the season talking about how troubling it was that none of the other big clubs were in for Eriksen, and that he wouldn't be able to cope with the physicality in the PL.
Confirmation Bias at play. Every time a foreign player flops it's seen as proof regarding how exceptional the Premier League is, but when foreign players don't skip a beat and just step their game up even more they never stop to reflect on what that might mean.
It means I've lost hope that they will be successes at the club. Of course I wouldn't envisage letting them go for free but if they both had good WC then I'd be in favour of accepting any offers which were round what we paid or higher.
The reason I have more faith in Soldado than Chadli: Whenever I have been at a game this season, Bobby's off the ball movement has been really intelligent and Chadli by contrast seems incapable of moving in to space. If you ever get to go, watch how he only ever receives the ball from a static position. Fine if you're David Ginola....Chadli is not.
Just my opinion, which I'm entitled to: Soldado in the right conditions (which may not arise) could be a star for us. Chadli for me is limited and won't be more than a decent squad player at best.
I "go" plenty, thanks, Don't patronise me.
I think Chadli's seemed like a decent player. Great technique, could do a job in a fair amount of positions. And a steal at only 7 mill. With all things taken into account, id say he was actually one of our better purchases. Far cheaper than Soldado, lamela and Paulinho, Easily the most versatile of the 7, at a decent age, Can offer something different off the bench if plan A isn't working. And we'd probably turn a profit on his sale.
In fact, I'm pretty sure "the secret footballer" summed it up perfectly....
http://www.thesecretfootballer.com/...01/spurs-can-only-profit-from-chadli-capture/
Hrmmm, whilst I'm not really in the position to argue seeing as we stand on two very different sides of the agenda, i have to say i really don't agree. The whole Anti "english mentality towards foreign players" thing is obviously barely ever mentioned over here (in fact, its something i haven't really come across anywhere but this forum)
You make it seem like there are only two ways it can go when a foreign player comes to the PL, they either progress, or regress. And that does happen, with some of the players we've mentioned Henry, Suarez, Ronaldo, Tevez etc etc, have come to the pl as promising yet average, and left being top /world class players. Its true that the majority of those that do go on to become great are usually the more expensive when they are brought here, that goes without saying obviously. But its definitely not the case that they're regarded as "unnecessary luxurious foreign imports" (regarded as such by who, btw?)
The only players i can think of that fits into that category, are Shevchenko and Torres (for Chelsea, not Liverpool. He was clearly a fantastic buy for liverpool until Chelsea doubled his value) both of which were Big Abramovich statement buys. Both were unnecessary, or at least excessive (30 mill for 30 year old striker on the wane, or 50 million for out of form waning striker, theres kind of a pattern) The difference between the two, being torres was "premier league proven" which may equate for part of the reason they paid so much for him.
bare with me because i am sort of going somewhere with this...
Yes, i see your point that narrowing our choices to only premier league proven players is ridiculous because there is a lot of talent out there, BUT you're simplifying it a ridiculous amount. In a way, you're almost saying that you wouldn't swap any of our 7 signings for any of the players in the premier league. Which is obviously not true, as an example, look at who had a better first season for us. Paulinho, or Dembele. Injuries to Dembele aside he came in and has been one of our better players, whilst Paulinho has been anonymous far too often for some peoples liking this season. Thats not to say he's not going to be our Christiano Ronaldo next season, Because he could be, we know he's talented, he's just taken time to adjust.
Dembele didnt have that problem so much, because he'd been in the premier league already. I don't think we massively overpaid for him 15 million seems a pretty fair price.
At the end of the day, it comes down to playing the odds. To continute the Paulinho/Dembele example, they were signed for roughly the same amount to play similar positions, and off the top of my head i don't think theres to much difference in age. So its a pretty fair comparison to make.
Whenever you sign any player, its an absolute lottery. Theres so many variables to take into account, which is why so much money is involved. You have to look at the player and say what are the odds, for which way those variables turn out. The odds of Dembele doing well for us in the long term were obviously high, lets say 85% because he was already doing fantastic in the same league, albeit at a lower level club. the odds of Paulinho doing the same, were probably lower, seeing as he's from the other side of the world, had already had unsuccessful times in lesser european leagues and south americans are known to not always adapt well in europe. So his odds might be... 75% in the long term. But the odds for them doing it immediately, would probably be about the same for Dembele, but a lot lower for Paulinho. say, 50-60%. Lets face it, we all knew it would take time to adapt, we just hoped that it wouldn't take long. Unfortunately it has and the club didn't exactly help that situation.
So, basically, were i in charge of signing players, id say that yes, you could save money by buying foreign, but theres a lot more risk attached. And i don't think thats in any way shape or form xenophobic or anything. You paint a picture of a jekyll and hyde mentality over here where, we love to sign all these foreign players but hate that theres so many of them in our league. Maybe thats how we come across over there but i really don't think its the case.
Ive heard many people make the argument that we're almost xenophobic for the way we go on about young english players, and how they're losing out to foreign players etc, and that we shouldn't care how many english players play as well, but thats clearly just stupid. Whats the point of having and english football setup if not to bring through and create talented english players. Otherwise it might as well just be moved to Qatar and milked for every penny, and then used to bring in all the best players from around the world and create some huge money bags league.
Short story long, "Premier league proven" is certainly not something that should be dismissed so easily. Because there have been FAR far more players that have come in and been forgotten about because they were at best average, than have come in and become great. I think the way you, and whoever it was that made that list are putting it, are ignoring the fact that its not just the top 5-6 teams in the PL that are bringing foreign players in, its every premier league team, dating back to the start of the premier league, and the teams before that, for about 100 years. even back in the early days players were signed from Scotland and Wales, which obviously isn't the same as signing a brazillian, but you get my point, english leagues have been signing players from outside england from almost day one. And the ones worthy of making lists about are a mere footnote. Theres been far, far, far more that have been forgotten about before they'd even had a chant made for them.
Kane has scored his goals against dross in matches that mean fuck all at the tail end of a season were we have nothing to play for, by all means congratulations but lets not start acting like it means fuckn anything lets see how he does when the pressure is back on. Soldado has a long distinguished career at the top of football in one of the best leagues in the world, currently there is no comparison unless you are a fuckn idiot. So no it's not contradictory it's simply stating Kane has a long way to go and much to prove at the top level of football when the points at stake actually matter.
Internet message board isn't worth the seconds it would take to look up the correct spelling
You could make a list of players who were great first year no experience. You could make a list of players that sucked first year, great second year. You could make a list of players who were great first two years and...
And it's not just non-english players. Plenty of English players suck just like their non-english counterparts.
If you're English and prefer an all-English team, more power to you (they would suck but...)
My point is the first-year syndrome is a narrative for lazy people/analyst/writers... to explain why a first year player is struggling. The "second-season syndrome" is also a lazy way to explain why a second year player is not performing...etc.
Would Spurs be much better off if they had gotten
Michu
Johan Elmanda
Jozy Altidore
Danny Grahm
Fellani
Antolín Alcaraz
John Joe Shelvy
all have that oh so wonderful premier league experience!
Short reason why some of Spurs players have struggled system, coach, new teammates, injuries, ext
Lamela-Injuries
Ericksen- Looks good
Chadli-Looks like a decent rotation player, which was the expecation i think
Paulhino-Looks decent.
Capoue-Had good start at DM, bad at CB. Injured
Chirces-Good start, injuries
Soldado- I think the slow build-up play didn't quite suite him to start, had started to look better, then injured.
I don't think any of the player listed above are struggling because the Premier League is just too good because it isn't.
pbesmoove
I honestly cannot take you seriously. You barely make sense, i have no idea what your point is, theres a few things that are just plain wrong in what you just said, but its not worth my time to tell you. And you can't even get peoples names right. You are literally to stupid to argue with. You come across as knowing fuck all about football. And for that reason, I'm out.