Only way I would even consider accepting Stratford now (dead against it permanently) would be for one season and if it a straight toss up between there or MK while the imaginary new WHL is finished.. And if West Ham wouldn't get a penny out of us for the privilege either.
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Only way I would even consider accepting Stratford now (dead against it permanently) would be for one season and if it a straight toss up between there or MK while the imaginary new WHL is finished.. And if West Ham wouldn't get a penny out of us for the privilege either.
I agree. One season means very little and would be a totally different matter. If we had to move anywhere for a year Stratford would get my vote.
The Cardiff situation is a good example of why I no longer love football. One thing is what Tan did to the club, another thing is that the majority of fans accept it as long as there is short-term success.
I still think that the Stratford bid was a red herring, to give certain parties a kick up the kyber, as us moving out of the area would be a total disaster for the locals. I'd like to think that if there was a serious threat to our identity then we would organise ourselves properly.
This was always my interpretation - everyone seems to forget the pledges Boris et al made to post the decision to pacify us.
I am delighted we didn't get Stratford and would've been sick to move from WHL....BUT as a taxpayer I was genuinely angered it was awarded to West Ham. £80m of public money to, as
Greaves357_bestever
points out, give them an opportunity to overtake us. Sickening!Frankly that Chelsea scumbag Seb Coe should have his knighthood removed for the whole farce.
I still love football due to the fact there are still some fans left (at every/most clubs) who would be opposed to such a thing, even if it is a minority. But I agree fully with the rest of your post.
How many games do you come over for these days? Do you still have a season ticket?
I think you are too trusting of Levy. I think he cares far more about making a profit for ENIC than he does about the local area. If he wasn't serious, why would he break the law in hiring someone to spy on West Ham's bid?
I like your last sentence. I think there was a serious threat, but a lot of people didn't perceive it as such, which is understandable but misguided (IMO of course).
Still got my season ticket in the Shelf. Used to do 12-15 games per season travelling from Norway, but I've cut back on the number of games in recent years. Sometimes less is more, if you know what I mean.
I think the Stratford move was serious given the demands the local council was making on the club. They were essentially asking THFC to undertake all the development the urban government was supposed to do. At the costs the club was facing, it may have been a choice between staying in Tottenham and being financially crippled, or moving and being able to continue as a club. Not ideal, but we don't know the numbers ourselves.
Brilliant read, thanks for posting
Such a shame to see it just accepted, but sadly it was always going to be
This
I was one of the few that took it seriously out of my lot at games.or indeed in my local.
Too convenient that NDP was viable, then suddenly not viable when Stratford came on the table, then viable again afterwards. It was never a question of Stratford or bust. Any money which we could have reasonably expected Haringay or London to give us would have been a very, very small percentage of the overall cost of NDP.
And even if it wasn't viable (which it was) we were and are perfectly stable with our finances in our current ground. The option to stay at WHL or to look for other North London alternatives was still there, without calling into doubt the future of our club.
It was a question, instead, of identity vs (possible) on the pitch success.
NDP wasn't looking viable though. It wasn't about money from Haringey/London, it was how they wanted Spurs to build them a subway station and 20 years of road work they'd avoided doing. I think Stratford was a real choice until the city backed down on some pretty unreasonable demands. I also think things probably looked better in terms of fan access and commercial tie-ins for the club.
In the end the opposition of fans and other clubs did it in, but I think internally it was a very real choice, and probably the preferred choice until the city came to its senses after the riots.
Were those conditions needed to get planning permission at the time? If so, I can't remember that part as I was focusing on the Say no to Stratford movement at the time. If that was the case though, how come NDP was our preferred option until the very moment Stratford appeared as an option? Levy must have known about those things at the time previous to Stratford being an option.
Also:
1. Haringey were clearing being very unreasonable and surely could have been talked out of this
2. We could have stayed at WHL or tried to find somewhere else in North London.
Of course Stratford was better for corporates etc, that's not what I'm arguing about. What I'm trying to say is that we did have a choice, it wasn't a case of "the club will cease to exist unless we move to East London".
NDP was the preferred option until an alternative appeared because it may have been the only option. I think the fans are very naieve about just how bloody difficult it is to build something like a stadium in modern day London. Chelsea have been trying as long as we have to do the same thing. And they've had even less success.
Given the council's demands, you don't think ENIC/the club didn't try to talk them out of it? And the failure to get anywhere with that was what led to the strong interest in Stratford? You don't undertake that kind of a move unless you really don't have a choice, especially after buying up all the surrounding property you can around WHL in anticipation of building there.
It's pretty clear the plan was initially to improve WHL, which was later abandoned. Perhaps because they felt that they needed something bigger than was physically possible in a rebuild of WHL itself. They then started acquiring property around the area in anticipation of building a new stadium, which was not a rapid process. They started getting the planning permissions and what not, and did run into large demands from the local council and city. Those pushed up the cost of the new stadium project by a very significant margin. The Stratford option appears. Spurs indicate interest, perhaps initially due to the intransigence of the council, perhaps just due to the economic advantages. Fans begin to indicate their opposition, but the club keeps looking, perhaps because nothing was changing in Haringey. Fans get serious about resisting the idea. The club digs in. Alarm bells perhaps start ringing for all parties. Then we get the riots, and a newfound community-mindedness on the part of local government. Suddenly, the NDP becomes a much more viable project. At the same time, the Stratford option goes against the club. Back to the NDP, but a few years stalled. It may be easier, but it's still bloody hard to do, especially when you don't have all the land. Ultimately, we may never get that land, which would be a problem. If that happened, I don't know how they could do anything without just demolishing WHL in situ, and rebuilding from scratch. Which likely would be a lot longer than a year away.
I don't really see how ENIC are villans in this case though. They want to build a new stadium, and have good reasons for doing that. It's bloody tough to do that, and I think anyone who thought it was easy really didn't have a clue. I think everyone at the club has been rather traumatized by how much effort this has taken, and it's going to be a lot more trauma yet. But I really don't see how the actions of the club can be considered as being so ridiculous. They are responsible for looking out for their own interests as an ongoing entity. Haringey and the wider city of London haven't shown any concern about that, or about anything other than how much they can squeeze from the club.
I honestly believe if,in 1964 the border of the London Boroughs of Enfield and Harringey had been created a few hundred yards further south ,we as a club would have been treated so much better.
Even Liverpool are struggling in the shit hole that is Liverpool
And blowing up large sections of Liverpool would definitely be considered as acting in the public interest.
I am pretty sure there was a serious attempt by Spurs to get Stratford, there was a good business case to move there, all the infrastructure was in place and all the compulsory purchase and planning work was done & dusted, of course ENIC were attracted. They also knew enough fans would follow if the football was of a decent standard and that we were still looking there or thereabouts for Champions League. They also could say that the move that Woolwich made was not much different to the one they were proposing for us.
It doesn't really matter now, what matters is that someone has a vision for the club and it is not all about trying to squeeze money out of the fans, it's not all about profit but some kind of investment in our long term.
In assessment of ENIC, they paid for our new training facility, which is pretty highly rated, they have a plan to develop NDP. The real concern boils down to 2 key things.
1. The ticketing price is still way too high (match day and season ticket), Spurs have massive revenue from TV rights and Sponsorship and they don't need to charge so much to get in to a match, they need to either lose the Category match pricing completely or change the pricing structuree. THe club know full well that a lot of money is going to be diverted in to the new ground and the least they can do is give better value for money and retain goodwill while that's going on.
2. The overall strategy of hiring management is inconsistent, we have gone through too many '5 year plans', new football management structures and of course, David Pleat... We have been through a lot of managers, some perhaps deserving more time & patience.
It doesn't really matter now, what matters is that someone has a vision for the club and it is not all about trying to squeeze money out of the fans, it's not all about profit but some kind of investment in our long term.
In assessment of ENIC, they paid for our new training facility, which is pretty highly rated, they have a plan to develop NDP. The real concern boils down to 2 key things.
1. The ticketing price is still way too high (match day and season ticket), Spurs have massive revenue from TV rights and Sponsorship and they don't need to charge so much to get in to a match, they need to either lose the Category match pricing completely or change the pricing structuree. THe club know full well that a lot of money is going to be diverted in to the new ground and the least they can do is give better value for money and retain goodwill while that's going on.
2. The overall strategy of hiring management is inconsistent, we have gone through too many '5 year plans', new football management structures and of course, David Pleat... We have been through a lot of managers, some perhaps deserving more time & patience.