Right, he's a 23 year old with experience in the Champions League and the top of the Bundesliga, and now a year and a half in the Prem. Frankly, a promising youngster yet to see a considerable stretch in his position of choice for us doesn't get any more appealing than this, especially considering it's reasonable to believe Poch actually tried to get him this past winter window and so would be apt to integrate him into his philosophy.
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Right, he's a 23 year old with experience in the Champions League and the top of the Bundesliga, and now a year and a half in the Prem. Frankly, a promising youngster yet to see a considerable stretch in his position of choice for us doesn't get any more appealing than this, especially considering it's reasonable to believe Poch actually tried to get him this past winter window and so would be apt to integrate him into his philosophy.
For the most part it was an emotional rant because we haven't had any football for ages and i have been listening to old episodes of the pod around about the time Holtby signed. BlameThelonious
When he signed there was this incredible feeling that we had grabbed some brilliant youngster, but in the cold light of day, although Holtby remains a decent player, he isnt this masterful number 10 he was meant to be. He isn't even good enough to play deeper, Bentaleb is far more reliable there.
I just dont understand how there continues to be this much support for a player that to be honest, has done very little for Spurs. In his first season Jenas managed a lot more, yet he remains an analogy for everything that is wrong with Spurs.
Holtby is ok, but not the wunderkid people make out.
Haha fair enough on the emotion.
I'm curious though, just for the sake of relativity of reference, what is your take on the players we brought in last summer? Do you excuse them after one year of being with Spurs, the same amount of time Holtby has spent with us?
He's a squad player at best for Spurs. If he's content with that role that's fantastic. He's perfect as a squad player. Young and extremely hard worker on the field with more skill than your average hard worker. Great as a sub, for cup games, and cover. Plus, he is still young and you can never perfectly project how a young player will develop. He has upside. But overall I think his spot now and into the future as Spurs is as a squad player. Will he be okay with that? I hope so.
Um... I guess the answer would be I don't really have one? I'm pretty down on the pivot part of our midfield. Eriksen starting in the most advanced part of our central midfield is the only thing I really feel good about. Besides that, I'm really hoping we buy Schneiderlin to play the deepest role in our midfield. He's such a complete player, probably number 1 on my wish list despite our glut of CMs. I think he's that good. For the more box to box role, I guess my preference would be Bentaleb. I thought his form last year was better than Dembele or Paulinho and those were in his first ever top flight games. Also hoping the World Cup will have accelerated his development. But still, I don't feel too confident relying on a 19 year old but he is our best chance of having a great player in that spot.
As for Holtby I think he's the type of squad player a club like Spurs should be aspiring to have, hard working and relatively skilled. Of course the caveat is I can't even make an educated guess how Holtby or any player will develop under Pochettino as we haven't really seen anything yet. But we have a decent sample size now with Holtby and I don't see him as of the requisite quality to make the Spurs first team especially considering his most natural position is taken up by arguably our most undroppable outfield player. I don't think there's any non-speculative evidence that he can play deep or wide so unless he is to supplant Eriksen I just don't see it.
Fair enough. I'm with you on everything else aside from Holtby, in fact I'd love to see us roll out on Aug 16th with Eriksen at CAM and Schneiderlin at CDM. Considering we'd be playing West Ham though, I'd prefer Dembele, if he's still around, over Paulinho and even my first choice in Holtby. But optimally, I'd love to see a midfield of Eriksen, Schneiderlin, and Holtby in the #8 slot. I think that midfield would control possession all day, and constantly keep the opposition backpedaling and on their toes. Plenty of forward thought and drive in that midfield, and plenty of pace to disrupt play as well.
Is also important to keep in mind, and this in truth helps build your own case, that Poch does very much like his early subs. While most teams make their first sub somewhere in the 77-85 min range, Poch tends to make multiple subs around 70' mark. Personally I'm a fan, as it keeps the legs fresher and keeps more folks happier.
Makes sense considering the rigor of his pressing system. It is a very common to see pressing teams wear down and concede late. The onus is on the manager to regulate minutes and make sure fitness is high. Just another reason I think Holtby is perfectly built for a sub in this new era.
I'd love to see him make the number 8 spot his own, just hard to see it being a seamless or easy transition. Would much rather it was tested in Europa or other Cups. If it works, then introduce it in the league but starting it right away would be too bold in my eyes especially considering how many options we have there.
I can agree with that, although I think it likely one of Paulinho or Dembele will be sold before all is said and done. Also wouldn't be surprised to see Bentaleb get a Prem loan. He'll have no shortage of willing suitors I'm sure after his performances last season, and capped off by his work in the WC. So I wouldn't mind seeing Holtby and Carroll manning the midfield in the cup matches for the time being. Really enjoyed the game (Sherif maybe?) this past season in which they played together, featured some of the best midfield interaction we saw all season.
I'd really rather not loan Bentaleb. I think he is at worst second choice in our side this year. I'm not going to go into my opinions on Paulinho but I wouldn't mind one bit if he was moved on. I love Tom Carroll so much and hope he get playing time but I think it's a little hard to see. Hope I'm wrong.
Yeah, no doubt we both agree on Paulinho.
I'd ideally like to see us keep Bentaleb as well, and especially at the expense of either Dembele or Paulinho. I think him spending time with Poch would be more vital than the learning curve of having a season elsewhere, considering what he's already done. However, I still think it likely. Honestly think there's a fair chance of him ending up at Saints to soften the move of Schneiderlin, and I think a coach from the Eredivisie would love Bentaleb's style.
Holtby is only a year older than Tom Carroll but I don't see anyone analysing or writing off his career - and Carroll had plenty opportunity to do something last season and was my most accounts piss and out of his depth. Why are we always shitting on our own players ? And this one has not even had a chance.
That's a good shout for Bentaleb on loan to sweeten the Schneiderlin deal. Koeman will be interesting to watch, he's one of the more contentious names amongst Dutch coaching circles because along with Van Marwijk they have broken from the traditional Cruyff/Michels attacking Dutch football ethos. His teams have not always endeavored to play attacking football With how much Southampton is giving up, I think they'll probably be amongst those in the relegation battle. They may turn to quite defensive tactics due to that. I'm not sure I would feel great about Bentaleb there.
I think all of our young players that we see as potential first teamers should stay with the club for the first half of the season and learn Pochettino's system. They can get games in the Europa group stages and other early cup games. If it looks like they won't be getting any games in the second half of the season, loan them out during the winter transfer window.
In an ideal world that would be an absolutely perfect outcome, and I do still think it possible. I think it more likely though that those clubs interested will push for full season deals. IMO, a half season deal would do little to no good for Bentaleb given his current experience. A full season experience and the demands on the body is what he needs if he's to leave Poch by my take.
He's 24 in September. Youngster still? He's closer to Lennon than Bentaleb in age. I would love it if he proves himself this season, but time is running out for him.
Bardi
The Fighting Cock
Eriksen is incredible. Despite coming from a weaker league he has been brilliant. Younger than holtby and all round a better player. If he had the social media skills of Holtby......
Paulinho- desperately disappointing, but i will let him off. Just as he was picking up form Adam nearly broke him in half, then after that it was all about getting to Brazil uninjured.
Lamela- Have to wait. Cant judge him yet.
Chadli- Never more than a squad player. Arrived with little hype or fanfare. To be fair though weighed in with some goals and strong performances at the end.
Soldado- jesus. Can take a pen though which is good news.
Capoue- Looked decent then got injured, ate to much got fat and lazy. Needs a big year.
Chiriches- Looks very talented. Ball playing CB, may come to the fore under Poch.
I am not saying Holtby is poor, he just isnt what he was made out to be. His tenacity and obvious passion for the club has allowed him to build this cult following that frankly he doesnt deserve.
I have said before i hope he smashes it this season, i just dont think he is good enough to ever really control a game.
You're welcome geez, debate is healthy. I just think he hasn't had much of a chance so should be roughly in the same boat as Lamela and Soldado when we're evaluating players. If Eriksen gets injured and he gets drafted in then he must take his chance.
I'd say those are fair, and accurate, assessments.
However, in regards to Eriksen, while I agree with you I think people are too hung up on the fact Holtby has largely featured for us at CAM. He has said since arriving at Spurs he prefers playing in front of the back line, and while I'm not saying he'll be entirely moved to that position, I think it does Holtby disservice to discredit him simply because Eriksen is better. Hotlby's skills are actually more conducive to the position he says he wants to play, so I'd like to see him played there and was delighted to see Poch do so in the friendly last week.
That's just it. This isn't directed at Lombardi at all since he's weighed in with fair assessments of the players, but I find it a blatant double standard when defenders of some of the "magnificent seven" declare we can't judge based on one season, when Holtby has been a player at Spurs for exactly the same period of time. If we want to throw in his performances for Fulham, I must say I was quite happy with them. In just 13 games, he hung up more assists than Paulinho did in an entire season of 30 games.
People may cite the different positions, but if you look at heat maps of the two players they didn't really start from different areas of the pitch considering Fulham was wielding relegation tactics while we featured a more expansive style, hence Holtby started just as reserved as Paulinho.
it's not enough to be seen attempting to do something, you actually have to do it
Fuck that "Aim High, Failing Is Glorious" stuff.
Plaster the top quote all over the new stadium. Maybe translate it into latin so people take it seriously.
Then we might actually improve this club.
Fuck that "Aim High, Failing Is Glorious" stuff.
Plaster the top quote all over the new stadium. Maybe translate it into latin so people take it seriously.
Then we might actually improve this club.