Lewis Holtby

[sammyspurs]

Lol, adorable. You're like the kid who asks another kid in class a question, and then tattles on that second kid for talking during class. Grow the fuck up and get thyself to that dictionary.

Better to have a limited knowledge, in terms of history's best intellects and philosophers, than to try and act like one. Whilst completely unaware of your own levels of intelligence......ploughing on continuously, and oblivious to fact that you are all the things you are pointing the finger at.

You come across like one of those wannabe culture vultures, that dont understand that they do not have the savvy to debate on the levels they think they do.

 

[MKYid]

I havent judged his worth.
I said Fulham were the only club interested enough to sign him and where were all the top clubs if he's as good as people are making out?

So, if bigger clubs came in for him he'd be considered a better player? And do better players not hold more value? So you are judging his ability and subsequent worth based on the option he chose for a loan move irrespective of other factors such as the convenience of just going somewhere local for such a short-term move.

 

[sammyspurs]

So, if bigger clubs came in for him he'd be considered a better player?

Do you eat a banana and then peel it?

If he was a better player, better clubs would want him....thats how the world works. Cause and effect.

 

[CJJ]

Of course. Thats because Ade was loaned out to Real Madrid and Spurs, not Fulham.

We were more Fulham than Real Madrid when he got loaned to us.

Last summer, the only team to come in for him was one of the Turkish teams - none of the teams in the top leagues were even remotely interested, not even Fulham. I think the only PL that tried were QPR.

Judging a player by the interest from other teams is stupid

 

[MKYid]

Do you eat a banana and then peel it?

If he was a better player, better clubs would want him....thats how the world works. Cause and effect.

But you're the one attributing the worth of the player to the club he went to.

Using your own analogy, you assume that a banana tastes better because of the net worth of the person who brought it, regardless of who wanted a banana that day!

 

[sammyspurs]

But you're the one attributing the worth of the player to the club he went to.

Using your own analogy, you assume that a banana tastes better because of the net worth of the person who brought it, regardless of who wanted a banana that day!

Im not attributing his worth. I simply said that Fulham showed the most interest.

Everybody refuting this has yet to show me any evidence of another club who showed more interest, and that Holtby turned them down and chose Fulham to suit his lifestyle......but apparentley, that is not in any way an assumption.

 

[sammyspurs]

We were more Fulham than Real Madrid when he got loaned to us.

Thats why 12 months earlier, Ade actually knocked us out the CL quarter finals against Real I suppose. Cos we were just like Fulham...yep nice one.

Judging a player by the interest from other teams is stupid

So is turning every single thread into something about Ade...

And if you think that the types of club going after a player has no indication on that players ability, then you are either very naive, or willingly playing dumb because you want to defend Holtby.

Defend him against nothing by the way.....its not me who thinks playing for Fulham is an insult as other seem to be with their hysterical denial that no top teams were interested enough in him to push the deal through.

 

[MKYid]

Im not attributing his worth. I simply said that Fulham showed the most interest.

Everybody refuting this has yet to show me any evidence of another club who showed more interest, and that Holtby turned them down and chose Fulham to suit his lifestyle......but apparentley, that is not in any way an assumption.

And why did you simply say that Fulham showed the most interest? Because you were implying that Holtby wasn't very good based on the fact only Fulham "showed enough interest"....remember?

If he was a better player, better clubs would want him....thats how the world works. Cause and effect.

Everyone has since pointed out that a) Fulham were not necessarily the ones who showed most interest, they just happened to be the most convenient club showing a suitable amount of interest. b) A mid-season short-term move is not indicative of Holby's market value (his market value being intrinsically linked to his worth as a player).

 

[CJJ]

Thats why 12 months earlier, Ade actually knocked us out the CL quarter finals against Real I suppose. Cos we were just like Fulham...yep nice one.

Remember this?

Thats because you do not compete against yourself from previous seasons. You are rewarded from where you finish in relation to the other teams in the current season.

The season he signed for us on loan, we weren't in the CL - therefore for us to have signed the player, you have to say that we must have 'shown the most interest' and that none of the other clubs (especially those in the CL) were interested - by extension of your own logic?

 

[sammyspurs]

Remember this?



The season he signed for us on loan, we weren't in the CL - therefore for us to have signed the player, you have to say that we must have 'shown the most interest' and that none of the other clubs (especially those in the CL) were interested - by extension of your own logic?

LOL.....we were still a top 5 club, fighting for the CL when he signed tough....more like Fulham you said...pathetic "point"

And whats the record points tally argument, or Adebayor got to do with Holtby signing for Fulham?

 

[sammyspurs]

And why did you simply say that Fulham showed the most interest? Because you were implying that Holtby wasn't very good based on the fact only Fulham "showed enough interest"....remember?

I wasnt implying anything. I was stating the fact that no top clubs were interested enough to sign him.

Which is very odd for a player who is perceived to be so talented by some, who becomes available in the January window....the most difficult time to sign quality.

 

[CJJ]

And whats the record points tally argument, or Adebayor got to do with Holtby signing for Fulham?

The fact that you use the same logic to defend in the other two, but criticise in this one?
ochfacepalm:

 

[MKYid]

I wasnt implying anything. I was stating the fact that no top clubs were interested enough to sign him.

Which is very odd for a player who is perceived to be so talented by some, who becomes available in the January window....the most difficult time to sign quality.

How can you not have been implying anything? What is the purpose behind even stating that no top clubs were interested and he could only get Fulham? This whole statement by you is to justify your implication that Holtby isn't good enough by virtue of where he went.

1. Was he available, available? Or was it a loan move as he believed he could still have a future at Spurs once the PE teacher had shown himself up?
2. Who rebuilds in the winter window? Teams may make an urgent signing or two, but just because a top side didn't have a necessity for Holtby there and then it does not suggest the same teams would not look to get him in the summer to strengthen their squads.

 

[CJJ]

How can you not have been implying anything? What is the purpose behind even stating that no top clubs were interested and he could only get Fulham? This whole statement by you is to justify your implication that Holtby isn't good enough by virtue of where he went.

1. Was he available, available? Or was it a loan move as he believed he could still have a future at Spurs once the PE teacher had shown himself up?
2. Who rebuilds in the winter window? Teams may make an urgent signing or two, but just because a top side didn't have a necessity for Holtby there and then it does not suggest the same teams would not look to get him in the summer to strengthen their squads.

+ 1

As far as I was aware, there was interest from teams like Shalke for a permanent signing, but Levy was quoting too much. Shalke didn't want to loan him as they preferred to build rather than plaster fix?

That, for me, suggests that he is highly rated and the plan was to keep the talent away from the frictional interim so as to not alienate the future of the club - could apply to a number of players who disappeared from the team in the 2nd half of the season.

 

[sammyspurs]

The fact that you use the same logic to defend in the other two, but criticise in this one?
ochfacepalm:

What on earth are you on about?

You compared us to Fulham the year Adebayor joined on loan for fucks sake.

 

[sammyspurs]

How can you not have been implying anything? What is the purpose behind even stating that no top clubs were interested and he could only get Fulham? This whole statement by you is to justify your implication that Holtby isn't good enough by virtue of where he went.

Exactly. Its not an implication.

I have clearly stated that I feel Holtby is fairly average, many times. And I have used the fact that no clubs were more interested in him than Fulham to back to that up.

And the fact he has spent most of his career either on loan, or on the bench.

I dont need to imply anything. I stand by the point I am making.

I dont find it insulting or degrading for a player to be average, nor do I use it as a put down of Fulham.

I just feel that the whole situation adds up to Holtby's abilities and limitations. There was a distinct lack of interest in him.

There may have been lots and lots and lots of offers from top 6 clubs all over Europe that was kept secret if want to believe that. His agent was quick enough to say Holtby was "desperate" to play and they were looking "intensively" for a club......but he kept very quiet about all the major interest though.

How odd.

 

[CJJ]

What on earth are you on about?

You compared us to Fulham the year Adebayor joined on loan for fucks sake.

So you're either a bit slow, or you don't read things.

We were more Fulham than Real Madrid when he got loaned to us.

As you can see, I compared us to both Fulham and Real Madrid - we were closer to Fulham (8th in PL) that season than we were to Real Madrid (5 -0 on aggregate).

I don't recall anyone in the Champions League wanting the player in question, so using your logic of "a player's value and ability coincides with the teams that want to sign him" is flawed

 

[Dweadle]

Lol. Holtby played great against the Sounders! haha I was a little surprised his goal was so smooth.
I still don't like Holtby as a 10 though! It looks like Lamela and Eriksen should have that role filled up between the two of them. And Kane would look great there too!

But damn Holtby, maybe you'd make a good wing forward and not just a sub 8 like I believe.

BTW. Now QPR and CP want him.

http://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/fo...rystal-Palace-in-for-Tottenham-s-Lewis-Holtby

The article insinuates that if he wasn't first team here he would want out. Well, if that's the case then we SHOULD move him. I still don't think he's a likely starter. Even after today's showing. Im warming up to him off the bench though. But Kane's pass man....... Kane really needs a spot on this team all ready.

 

[eanN17]

Kane's pass? wasn't it Carroll?

 

[Dweadle]

Kane's pass? wasn't it Carroll?

ermm shit was it, i thought it Kane. Maybe the announcer mispoke, because I couldnt really tell from the poor quality of feed I had.

But I am pretty sure it was Kane....... Kane is an awesome playmaker, not a 9. I personally think Kane will make a great SUb 10 or LW for us. I want to see him back up Eriksen at the 10 and get some EL games or something.

"GOOAAALLL!!!! HOLTBY FOR TOTTENHAM!!! What a lovely goal. Harry Kane dinks in an inviting ball over the top of the Sounders defence and Lewis Hotlby gets on the end of it to send a lobbed header beyond Frei. Tottenham lead, against the run of play it has to be said, though."