Levy / ENIC

[Greaves357_bestever]

Hey Daniel....

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/football/32784375

So what's the next excuse for not investing if FFP is not working and is going to be "relaxed" just another example of ENIC not being straight up. He says on Saturday how FFP prevents plays owner investment and by Wednesday this comes out. I am sick of being treated like a mug by fucking ENIC.....

Well said Lee, if FFP is relaxed that might cause a few ENIC apologists to revise some of their mantras. Then again .....nah, they've lent the words now, why change 'em

TBH, even with the former 'strict FFP' in place ,I still wanted ENIC out to be replaced by someone(s) who will give us serious financial backing. Getting the stadium built ASAP could be surely facilitated by those with mega-cash to invest, rather than wait around for whatever further delays ENIC will doubtless encounter.

For example, if changing design and thus slowing proceedings happens because we're chasing the Yankee dollar (aka NFL), this could be yet another 'ENIC error'.

 

[Boltonspur]

Which over three years averages 14 posts a day....takes a minute to write something...

That's 14 posts. Every day. For 3 years. Non stop. You gonna tell us next that you have only spent 14 minutes out of your life, every day, for 3 years "to write something"? I'm pretty sure you spend a lot longer than a minute per post. In fact I'm pretty sure you spend more than 14 minutes per day crawling through other people's posts so you can win the Internet.
Go out, get drunk, have a bit of rumpy pumpy. We will all be here when you get back.

 

[sammyspurs]

That's 14 posts. Every day. For 3 years. Non stop. You gonna tell us next that you have only spent 14 minutes out of your life, every day, for 3 years "to write something"? I'm pretty sure you spend a lot longer than a minute per post. In fact I'm pretty sure you spend more than 14 minutes per day crawling through other people's posts so you can win the Internet.
Go out, get drunk, have a bit of rumpy pumpy. We will all be here when you get back.

 

[Boltonspur]

"Felt like it" as you would say. Anyway Sammy. Who would win 4-0 if Poch managed "Harry's Spurs" & Harry managed Poch's lads? Still waiting for your infinite wisdom on that little conundrum. I await, with baited breath, the words of the forum savant.

 

[sammyspurs]

"Felt like it" as you would say. Anyway Sammy. Who would win 4-0 if Poch managed "Harry's Spurs" & Harry managed Poch's lads? Still waiting for your infinite wisdom on that little conundrum. I await, with baited breath, the words of the forum savant.

 

[Boltonspur]

Come on Sammy. Which team would win? You stuck it out there that Redknapps Spurs would beat Poch's Spurs 4-0. I asked a very simple question reversing the manager with the team. All I get is from you. You want to debate Spurs or play fantasy football manager? Or are we going back to your default response to anyone who dares challenge anything you say?

 

[SchmoodSpur2013]

Cheers for pointing that out Bazali.
Unfortunately even basic comprehension and reasoning skills seem to be beyond the wit of some of our fellow forumites.

Of course you have to also add in sheer virulent hatred, when it comes to my posts, from the more ardent members of my 'fan club'

I could write 1+1 = 2 , and there's a good chance I'll get a 'disagree' and a 'clownshoe cunt' thrown in for good measure

aHA! So you do read my posts. Clownshoe cock lolly.

 

[LeeMcl]

The excuse might just be not spending more than the club can afford on players and seeing the club hit the buffers like Portsmouth, Leeds, Blackburn etc.

FFP is there to (albeit very badly) regulate clubs who have been given more money then they could produce were it not for a benefactor and try to make clubs spend sustainably.

To say Levy can now break FFP rules now doesn't mean that he should.

I understand your point. However, the clubs income is being spent in various creative ways, for example Lillywhite House or the training ground to the detriment of the football product. The money all comes from the same pot that funds player recruitment. To expect our owners to "invest" some additional funds to the first team is not an unreasonable expectation, when first team funds are being used to prop up a property portfolio. It's fine to buils Lillywhite house, but frankly what good is that to my memories or the history of the football club & why did ENIC not fund that from non Football revenue ? It's fine to build a great training ground, but what really is the point of training second level players in a state of the art facility ?

 

[78Spur]

The argument to that is that you have to take a more patient approach and develop more of your own talent, take in players who are not in the world class bracket and develop that too.

I know that is a 'Rome wasn't built in a day' argument and if course I'd love to see us sign a truly brilliant player. The problem is that you don't know what you are going to get with a signing, whether they are going to be a Berbatov or a Soldado. Even with great credentials you have no idea how the player will adapt to the squad and management.

What I'm saying is that you can say Levy has spent money but in hindsight it's not worked enough, there have been too many flops and that might be because we've had so many changes of manager over time, it might be that too much has been put into infrastructure, it might be that every club is a hell of a lot richer with the sky deal and it's harder to keep pace. I think it's likely to be a combination but I think that Levy has built a great business the problem is he has not built what he wanted, which is a champions league team or a team that wins silverware.

But you have to accept that there are clubs better set up for the top 4,Chelsea and Man City are constants, Manchester United and Woolwich are bringing in more revenue than us and so are Liverpool too. We are trying to compete with clubs who are better resourced than us. That's why, in my head at least, I can't quite allow Levy to be seen as the reason for our woes..

 

[Boltonspur]

Cheers for pointing that out Bazali.
Unfortunately even basic comprehension and reasoning skills seem to be beyond the wit of some of our fellow forumites.

Of course you have to also add in sheer virulent hatred, when it comes to my posts, from the more ardent members of my 'fan club'

I could write 1+1 = 2 , and there's a good chance I'll get a 'disagree' and a 'clownshoe cunt' thrown in for good measure

Oi you bloody clownshoe cunt. Behave.

 

[LeeMcl]

The argument to that is that you have to take a more patient approach and develop more of your own talent, take in players who are not in the world class bracket and develop that too.

I know that is a 'Rome wasn't built in a day' argument and if course I'd love to see us sign a truly brilliant player. The problem is that you don't know what you are going to get with a signing, whether they are going to be a Berbatov or a Soldado. Even with great credentials you have no idea how the player will adapt to the squad and management.

What I'm saying is that you can say Levy has spent money but in hindsight it's not worked enough, there have been too many flops and that might be because we've had so many changes of manager over time, it might be that too much has been put into infrastructure, it might be that every club is a hell of a lot richer with the sky deal and it's harder to keep pace. I think it's likely to be a combination but I think that Levy has built a great business the problem is he has not built what he wanted, which is a champions league team or a team that wins silverware.

But you have to accept that there are clubs better set up for the top 4,Chelsea and Man City are constants, Manchester United and Woolwich are bringing in more revenue than us and so are Liverpool too. We are trying to compete with clubs who are better resourced than us. That's why, in my head at least, I can't quite allow Levy to be seen as the reason for our woes..

All reasoned points. However, I don't recall a demand for trophies or Champions League. What I want is an identity to be proud of again. I do not expect our team to be so utterly shit @ home to Hull resulting in our first shot on target being in the 56th minute ! I do not expect to be served up a 3-0 kicking @ Stoke in a manner so inept that absolutely no one can think of a positive and not be surprised it happened These type of performances are a kin to the Sugar days ( where this decline really kicked in stand up Gerry Francis ) there is no inference of being a "big club" just public statement as to what we can't acheive given we are little Tottenham. The most recent statement involved a pointed excuse about FFP being a barrier ( a barrier ENIC supported as game changing when introduced by the way ) 3 days later the FFP barrier has all but gone & can we reasonably expect a change, except that's not the ENIC way.

The Stadium is a game changer for ENIC not THFC so where does it leave us in terms of reason as to avoid stepping up. ENIC create a mindset of getting fat on a "cake tomorrow" principle & after 13/14 years i think that we should have some meat by now, not a battle to finish 6th !

To expect 1 or 2 marque signings every year to 18 months is no shaming expectation. The results might not be a huge improvement, but the product would be improved and generally that would be enough to hold the criticism at bay. This is the club who were promoted in 3rd place in 78 & then bought Ossie ! The club that bought Lineker & Gasgoigne and Greaves etc....once under ENIC we bought a star of that Level ONCE ( Van Der Vaart ) otherwise it's been punts, most of which looked second rate in the long run & a few of which were decent, so few as to be a small % of the constant churn of players they bring in.

 

[78Spur]

I am not completely against that and that desire for a footballing identity is something I can definitely see.

The problem is that we are capable of that swashbuckling game, I think we saw some of that this season but nothing like that consistency of a few years back.

I think we're in a funk, after the league cup I think the season has lost momentum completely and something reflects on the last few years where the quality of our game has dropped. AVB was, for all his results, anti football, certainly from a spectator's perspective, Tim was in every way an interim manager and I think the changing room wasn't with him, now Pochetino has a mixed squad he has to make work.

I agree if you are saying we have underachieved in terms of performance. We have to give Pochetino this season to create a squad in his image with the help of Mitchell and Levy has to empower him, if he doesn't then that will be his death knell with the fans. If Levy supports Pochetino and the squad fail, then it rests on the manager.

 

[sammyspurs]

We are trying to compete with clubs who are better resourced than us. That's why, in my head at least, I can't quite allow Levy to be seen as the reason for our woes..

Two sides to this really...agree that its not all down to Levy, and do worry where we would be if he sold up.

But on the pitch we are competing against sides that are in the best position for us to overtake them than they have been in decades. Sometimes the financial muscle issue doesnt cut it.

This season, it wasnt Utds spending that saw us miss out. Their biggest signings were absolute gash.
Woolwich and Liverpool are there to be overtaken....but yep, soon it will be too late

 

[Tomo]

While I understand the fact we are probably about the 6th biggest club in terms of revenue that doesn't always mean we should finish 6th. Teams have up and down seasons, Man City where shite this year and we should be in a position to capitalise on that but we are not. With Spurs it always feels like we never reach our potential in terms of league finish, football etc and in my view this is because we up till now have never had a long term stratagy, players and managers being hired and fired here and there, every season apart from one or two in the last decade has been a transititional season.

I know all clubs change but we are like a team in constant rebuild. You only have to look at teams like Atletico Madrid to see good management, transfer policy and so on means you can often compete with teams richer than you, or even in the prem look at how Southampton and Swansea have massively overachieved considering the size of their club, Swansea should not even be in the prem let alone 8th. I simply don't buy the 'we are where we should be' crap, our squad is full of dead weight dragging us down that Levy and Baldini fucked up together and Poch has only had one season to begin transforming our fortunes. 6th is where we should be based on our recent transfer and manager hire/fire policy.

Remember this is a chairmen who fired a guy who got us two 4th places, this is not to say Redknapp would have continued but you don't kick out a successful manager and we don't even know if Poch will be given the backing to make a proper attempt at reforming the club or just end up another manager on the pile of misfits.

 

[Greaves357_bestever]

Oi you bloody clownshoe cunt. Behave.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

All reasoned points. However, I don't recall a demand for trophies or Champions League. What I want is an identity to be proud of again. I do not expect our team to be so utterly shit @ home to Hull resulting in our first shot on target being in the 56th minute ! I do not expect to be served up a 3-0 kicking @ Stoke in a manner so inept that absolutely no one can think of a positive and not be surprised it happened These type of performances are a kin to the Sugar days ( where this decline really kicked in stand up Gerry Francis ) there is no inference of being a "big club" just public statement as to what we can't acheive given we are little Tottenham. The most recent statement involved a pointed excuse about FFP being a barrier ( a barrier ENIC supported as game changing when introduced by the way ) 3 days later the FFP barrier has all but gone & can we reasonably expect a change, except that's not the ENIC way.

The Stadium is a game changer for ENIC not THFC so where does it leave us in terms of reason as to avoid stepping up. ENIC create a mindset of getting fat on a "cake tomorrow" principle & after 13/14 years i think that we should have some meat by now, not a battle to finish 6th !

To expect 1 or 2 marque signings every year to 18 months is no shaming expectation. The results might not be a huge improvement, but the product would be improved and generally that would be enough to hold the criticism at bay. This is the club who were promoted in 3rd place in 78 & then bought Ossie ! The club that bought Lineker & Gasgoigne and Greaves etc....once under ENIC we bought a star of that Level ONCE ( Van Der Vaart ) otherwise it's been punts, most of which looked second rate in the long run & a few of which were decent, so few as to be a small % of the constant churn of players they bring in.

If we're judging marque signings, I have to ask what the criteria is? Is it the price tag, or the performance?

I don't think the two things are the same, but just want to know how you personally would judge someone being "marque"?

 

[Juicy Sushi]

How do you know? Seems you call everybody's opinions out as based on fantasy and conjecture but, then back up yours with the same level of assumption and think it's insight.

I have actually not disagreed with your reasoning behind the mis-balance of the squad, totally agree there is a long-game (there has to be) and that Poch has his ideas that might work. However, as you say, those kids are young, inexperienced, have been played in new positions/roles, heavily fatigued. Having seen quite a few games where that's been glaringly obvious and we've suffered for it, I don't believe that Capoue or Stambouli wouldn't have been better options. If not one of them two then Dembele could've certainly done a job at times.

As for not binning the cups for the sake of the league, Poch managed to bin the lot in 10days with either a lack of conviction or know-how or both. In MY opinion, which I'm allowed. I don't like it, others think it's fine.

You're welcome to your opinion, but I do take exception to the claim I didn't back up my assertions. I rebutted your claims about Adkins at Soton with evidence.

As for binning cups, I would like to know why you feel it was "conviction" or "know-how" rather than the fatigue of fixture congestion, which led to those 3 key games being played in 10 days, against teams with much more rest.

As for Capoue and Stambouli, I think the reason is partly off-pitch, rather than a playing matter. Dembele does somethings well, but also is very slow to release the ball, which is the complete opposite of what Pochettino wants a player to do, so I can understand why he didn't feature prominently, especially as a 10.

 

[LeeMcl]

If we're judging marque signings, I have to ask what the criteria is? Is it the price tag, or the performance?

I don't think the two things are the same, but just want to know how you personally would judge someone being "marque"?

A good question to ask. For me, Marque would be a proven performer who impacts games in a way above others. For example Rafa Van Der Vaart. A player who supposed fee was under 10 million but he influenced almost every game he played. Looking back, it would be signing Matt Le Tissier & not Ruel Fox...looking forward it would be signing Robin Cunt Persie & not Danny Ings.

 

[Juicy Sushi]

A good question to ask. For me, Marque would be a proven performer who impacts games in a way above others. For example Rafa Van Der Vaart. A player who supposed fee was under 10 million but he influenced almost every game he played. Looking back, it would be signing Matt Le Tissier & not Ruel Fox...looking forward it would be signing Robin Cunt Persie & not Danny Ings.

Ok, I can understand, although I think your looking forward example would be a total failure.

Your criteria though does mean that if we sign some obscure guy from nowhere who has a breakout year, he's retro-actively marque, even if no one thought it at the time.

 

[LeeMcl]

Ok, I can understand, although I think your looking forward example would be a total failure.

Your criteria though does mean that if we sign some obscure guy from nowhere who has a breakout year, he's retro-actively marque, even if no one thought it at the time.

It could be a disaster, it could be a bonanza, it's most likely to be the latter than former or though maybe not given its Spurs....