Improvements

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Lost 1-0 at Old Trafford last season too...

2015/2016
15 games played
6 wins
8 draws
1 loss
25 goals scored
12 goals conceded
26 points


2016/2017
15 games played
7 wins
6 draws
2 losses
24 goals scored
11 goals conceded
27 points
So it's not quite as bad as it seems then, especially with all the injuries in the first few months of the season.
 
Posted it earlier in the match thread.

Next 6 games are Hull H, Burnley H, Southampton A, Watford A, Chelsea H, West Brom H. We have got 9 pts out of those last season when replacing Newcastle with Hull and Norwich with Burnley. Let's try and get 14 out of those this time around. Would be a huge upgrade.
 
Posted it earlier in the match thread.

Next 6 games are Hull H, Burnley H, Southampton A, Watford A, Chelsea H, West Brom H. We have got 9 pts out of those last season when replacing Newcastle with Hull and Norwich with Burnley. Let's try and get 14 out of those this time around. Would be a huge upgrade.

If you're replacing Newcastle with Hull and Norwich with Burnley then we got 11 points.
 
Have we improved?

I look at our team and how we play every week and I don't see a team coming off the back of a title chasing season. I don't see a team that's grown in experience and learnt from anything that happened last season.

What I do see is how other teams around us have stopped performing like shit and now have some of the worlds finest managers managing them, sorted them out and are showing us exactly where we are in the pecking order really.

2015/2016:
Played 13
Won 6
Drawn 6
Lost 1
For: 24
Against: 11

2016/2017:
Played 13
Won 6
Drawn 6
Lost 1
For: 19
Against: 10

Pretty similar from last season. Obviously, if we keep this up and we match a lot from last season we'd end up on 70 odd points again. Which is usually about good enough for 5th place, sometimes 4th obviously depending on other teams performances.

Now let's look at the results from last season in the same fixtures we've played this season and have a look and see if we've improved at all:

2015/2016:
26 points from the exact same fixtures we've played this season

2016/2017:
24 points so far this season.

Our best unbeaten run this season was our opening 12 games. Though a lot of those games were draws. Our best unbeaten run last season was 14 games which come directly after our loss on the opening day of last season. That also harbored a lot of draws. Once again, we haven't really improved that aspect of our game.

I think we're a great team, I think we have a great manager but I just wish expectations of the team weren't so high basing everything from last season. It was a FREAK season. Chelsea, Liverpool and Man Utd ALL finished outside of the top four, when was the last time that happened? Man City finished FOURTH and Leicester won the fucking league.

Funnily enough, this year the norm returned. We have Leicester on the verge of battling relegation much like the season before. We have Man City and Chelsea back at the top of the table. Liverpool are hitting their stride and are on a 15 game unbeaten run in all competitions, Woolwich are on an 18 game unbeaten run in all competitions. We aren't better than ANY of the teams above us and that fucking pains me. Last season was the best oppertunity we had to win the league and it saddens me that we couldn't do it, nor could we capitilise on such a great season with a smart summer and a real crack at the Champions League.

You fast forward from April (when we were competing), we have managed to stagnate. Liverpool, Man City and Chelsea have all improved (two of which have since employed two of the best managers in world football to coach the team), we haven't really improved our squad, knocked out of the League Cup and Champions League without even really bothering and all we really have to look forward to this year is a hope that the FA Cup is treated with more respect and the hope that we keep our players fit and manage to compete for fourth place.

Fans need to grasp that. I've seen talk of Poch being under pressure? Really!? We are in the EXACT same position as we were last season and he wasn't getting such talk. In fact, he got us knocked out of the League Cup at home to Woolwich last year (one stage earlier than we got knocked out this season) and he was playing youth in the Europa League yet I don't rememer any of this talk last season.

We are in a position our spending allows us to be. We overachieved last season mixed in with the fact that the top teams that outspend us under-performed. I've said it before, I'll say it time and time again, our squad is FULL of 7/10 players but we have a system and manager that when in place sees our team perform at a 9/10 (at times a 10/10 when it all clicks). The problem is, the players themselves need to step up. Dier, Alli, Dembele, Eriksen for example are all below par this season, all four at times were CRUCIAL last year.

I'm almost glad that unbeaten run is over. During that unbeaten run we got knocked out of the League Cup and Champions League and all it proved in the league was that we were better then the likes of Everton, Southampton and Man Utd. Hopefully the loss kicks some sense into the players, play like we did in the first half against Chelsea and we'll be a force. We PRESSED, which we have hardly done all season, our passing was very good and we constantly cut Chelsea apart, for whatever reason that stopped in the second half but we know we can do it, the players cared.

The expectations this season were raised significantly based on our position last year (despite fans not looking at the bigger picture as well as realising that our total points haul was below par), this has made things challenging whenever we fail to beat a team we should beat (despite also not beating them last season), we are a young team, one thats experienced injuries and we need to understand this is what happens.

But...

We are Tottenham. We have a very young team, an inexperienced manager who has improved our team and style within the 3 years he has been here. We are raising our profile, we have a new stadium coming within the next few years and we're ONLY going to get better.

My question at the start of the post was 'Have we improved?' - you answer the question.

The fact that you are asking the question demonstrates we haven't.
There are a number of factors which has caused this imbalance because we have the same personnel? ...

in part...
Injuries.
Wemberly farce.
Signing Sissoko (transfer/wage) can unsettle things unless he makes a difference .
Last season we finished very poorly and this is the form we brought over. look at LCs form the season before last.
Chelseas have stumbled onto a formula that works for them just as LC did last season. We cant compete with that unless changes are made?

Poch and the players had a crisis talk last week before the Swansea game, they need another now before Hull.
 
Lets see if Chelsea win another 7 on the spin if Costa, Hazard and Luiz gets injured and Kante has to go CB..
The frightening thing is, they could-even with an injury or two (they only play week to week) .-this is LC all over again.

We just need to get back our zest for winning games and march on and hopefully the PL table will take care of its self. Despite yesterday, I still feel we are a decent side and it can only get better. Poch needs to make some tough decisions. I desperately want Lamella back because he drives us forward and gives us a little bite.
 
The frightening thing is, they could-even with an injury or two (they only play week to week) .-this is LC all over again.

I dont believe that for a second....WBA were right in that game until their defender had a brain freeze, and thats the key. Do that against Costa, its three points Chelsea.

Do it against us, and we patiently pass it back to the halfway line and build again.

No Costa yesterday, no win for them I feel. He's a game changer, and until they have 3 injuries in key areas and have to shuffle their defence, attack and CM from week to week, its not a fair comparison.

They have quality, but we certainly have a "Hazard and Costa" in our squad.....those two players were absolute garbage for two years, but they get a pass in most quarters and the world class talk starts.
Kane and Alli have been poor for five minutes and we suddenly dont have the squad.
 
Season's a write-off for me, not expecting much. Hopefully in the future we'll spend our money better and not leave business so late in the transfer window

By Sunday we could be third.....and you've written off the season?

Spend our money better? You've just written off the new signings after 15 games, of which only Wanyama has featured heavily.

Lamela took two years to come good.
 
Season's a write-off for me, not expecting much. Hopefully in the future we'll spend our money better and not leave business so late in the transfer window


You're normally a decent poster but have become very negative lately but this post is ridiculous

Worthy of that twat Scott
 
By Sunday we could be third.....and you've written off the season?

Spend our money better? You've just written off the new signings after 15 games, of which only Wanyama has featured heavily.

Lamela took two years to come good.


And Sissoko looked very promising yesterday as he still doesn't look 100% fit to me
Lots more to come
 
The way i am choosing to look at it is yes, we have improved... slightly. Others have also improved. I think our position at the moment is confusing, Poch has actually managed an HUGE set of aggregate misfortune very well. Don't need to list all the things that went wrong, but suffice to say everything that could go wrong went wrong - at the same time. So yeah, we've improved, but not by a great deal. Thing is, anyone who wasn't expecting a hard fought battle for 5th\4th\3rd this season (which by the way, is still totally on) wasn't paying much attention to reasons the big teams suffered last season. Everything is compounded by the pain of losing yesterday, cos we lost to a.) a shit United b.) didn't play very well ourselves (lacked passion, always frustrating). and c.) mourinho reverted to type and went full-on old-school cynical yesterday, which is dull to watch (and therefore even more frustrating). Everything is proceeding as it was always going to proceed this season. Lets chill.
 
By Sunday we could be third.....and you've written off the season?

Spend our money better? You've just written off the new signings after 15 games, of which only Wanyama has featured heavily.

Lamela took two years to come good.
I haven't written anybody off, but it's very obvious that we needed players that would make an instant impact. Not one of the players we signed this summer would do so, very obvious
 
I dont believe that for a second....WBA were right in that game until their defender had a brain freeze, and thats the key. Do that against Costa, its three points Chelsea.

Do it against us, and we patiently pass it back to the halfway line and build again.

No Costa yesterday, no win for them I feel. He's a game changer, and until they have 3 injuries in key areas and have to shuffle their defence, attack and CM from week to week, its not a fair comparison.

They have quality, but we certainly have a "Hazard and Costa" in our squad.....those two players were absolute garbage for two years, but they get a pass in most quarters and the world class talk starts.
Kane and Alli have been poor for five minutes and we suddenly dont have the squad.
Its all objective.
I agree, Costa (and others) are very important to them but he hasn't scored in every game. They could cope over a game or two without him- that goes for the others mentioned as well. They do not concede goals, thats the basis of a successful team. Game to game it may be highlighted that they would be missing but over a season they will not be? Chelseas play all behind the ball (bank of two lines), compete for it, win it, play it long to an out let. Then attack with minimal numbers. Costa is the lone forward who loves the one on one. Conte could change players around and you wouldn't see much difference.
Italy played exactly the same during the Euros.

Diego Costa | Football Stats | Chelsea | Age 28 | Soccer Base

Reverse what you are saying. Kane/Alli would not go into the Chelsea side and start looking world class? Both Costa, has an aggression that kane lacks and Hazard, has experience beyond Allis years and thats the fundamental difference. Chelsea's players are arrogant, annoying, in your face and play together because they know they are disliked by all (the seige mentality).

Yes, remove players from Chelseas and they may suffer. LC had their injuries and suspension but still won the PL.
 
Lamela took two years to come good.
two seasons- its silly when you think about it? all he is doing is playing football. Henrikh Mkhitaryan first season - hes finish yesterday was superb and with so much venom. Where is that urgency in our players . The move, pass, run on goal and power, brilliant goal.

I believe we have reduced the pressing game because we want teams to come out from their deep position and thats thrown our game a little . What do you feel?
 
The way i am choosing to look at it is yes, we have improved... slightly. Others have also improved. I think our position at the moment is confusing, Poch has actually managed an HUGE set of aggregate misfortune very well. Don't need to list all the things that went wrong, but suffice to say everything that could go wrong went wrong - at the same time. So yeah, we've improved, but not by a great deal. Thing is, anyone who wasn't expecting a hard fought battle for 5th\4th\3rd this season (which by the way, is still totally on) wasn't paying much attention to reasons the big teams suffered last season. Everything is compounded by the pain of losing yesterday, cos we lost to a.) a shit United b.) didn't play very well ourselves (lacked passion, always frustrating). and c.) mourinho reverted to type and went full-on old-school cynical yesterday, which is dull to watch (and therefore even more frustrating). Everything is proceeding as it was always going to proceed this season. Lets chill.
Very good measured post (spot on). Suddenly i feel a little better reading this. It is finely balanced . Thanks
 
I haven't written anybody off, but it's very obvious that we needed players that would make an instant impact. Not one of the players we signed this summer would do so, very obvious

Its only obvious after the fact though.....and Wanyama has been a god send in the time Dier had to fill in for Toby.

Sissoko, on the back of his Euros performances and price tag has been underwhelming, but the recent signs are promising. As I said, look at Lamela...it takes time.

Nkoudou hasnt had the game time, and Janssen has played well despite not scoring. They guy came off the back of a 30 goal season so while you say the club should spend more wisely, they obviously thought they had spent wisely, for a second striker. I did too, and still do.

Im actually glad our blip is pre christmas....chances are we find our stride and finish strongly this time.
 
Season's a write-off for me, not expecting much. Hopefully in the future we'll spend our money better and not leave business so late in the transfer window
how the fuck can the season be a write off? did you expect us to be 10 points clear and cruising in the champions league? you've clearly got no sense of where we've come from if you're saying this season has gone to shit when we're in 5th place and still in europe. A few years ago I'd have shoved my mum down a flight of stairs for that.
 
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