Mousa Dembélé

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Not this one. He was signed from AZ as a midfielder.

Fulham have a different player called Moussa Dembélé who is a striker though, so perhaps that's what you're thinking?

Nah he's right, he was a striker in his younger years, moved to forward at professional club level in Holland and with the Belgian youth setup, and then Jol moved him to central mid.
 
Do you have a Chrystal ball or something darling? Last season the problems were Lamela, Townsend, Defoe, Soldado, Lennon and Holtby bouncing off the parked bus.
Townsend, Defoe, Soldado, and Lennon, yes. Add Paulinho to that list, as well.

Lamela hardly featured for us, and Holtby spent one half of the season on the bench and the other half out on loan, so I don't think you can blame either of them for the issues in our play last season.

Ade and Kane showed us what some presense in the final third can get you. And Dembele has the beef to hold it up for the Eriksens, Lamelas and Ade's to express themselves.

It's not all about vision etc. Sometimes you just have to fucking crush a bitch. Spurs fans and managers always make the same mistakes. Overload their starting 11 with frilly fucking wankery when sometimes you need well rounded balance.
Maybe you were watching a different team last season. What I saw, and what I saw everyone else despairing over, was a side packed full of such physical midfielders, with no balance whatsoever. Eriksen aside, we played a significant amount of the season without any creative players.

As you say, what we need is balance, but in no way are the sides that you've been recommending balanced.
Him in the center of the 3 in a 4-2-3-1 will end up with a LOT more traction in the final third. And he'll be surrounded by players that can actually finish. It's my opinion. I could be wrong. And up until this point, he's never played in that position to prove me wrong.
Kyle Walker has never played as an AM for Spurs either, but that doesn't mean that it's worthwhile trying it out.

Dembele has said himself that he's not comfortable in the final third, that his role is to play deep, and with Eriksen in the side, there's no way that Dembele should start in the middle of an attacking three. Eriksen is a natural for that role, and if you want to shunt him off to the wing like Sherwood did then you're just creating imbalance in the playing formation, exposing the man at left back.


We just played most of a season with sides like this:
[formation=433, Lloris, Walker, Dawson, Vertonghen, Rose, Paulinho, Sandro/Bentaleb, Dembele, Lennon, Adebayor, Eriksen][/formation]... and you're complaining about too much "frilly fucking wankery" and a lack of physicality. You're either drunk, high, or both.
 
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Townsend, Defoe, Soldado, and Lennon, yes. Add Paulinho to that list, as well.

Lamela hardly featured for us, and Holtby spent one half of the season on the bench and the other half out on loan, so I don't think you can blame either of them for the issues in our play last season.

Maybe you were watching a different team last season. What I saw, and what I saw everyone else despairing over, was a side packed full of such physical midfielders, with no balance whatsoever. Eriksen aside, we played a significant amount of the season without any creative players.

As you say, what we need is balance, but in no way are the sides that you've been recommending balanced.

Kyle Walker has never played as an AM for Spurs either, but that doesn't mean that it's worthwhile trying it out.

Dembele has said himself that he's not comfortable in the final third, that his role is to play deep, and with Eriksen in the side, there's no way that Dembele should start in the middle of an attacking three. Eriksen is a natural for that role, and if you want to shunt him off to the wing like Sherwood did then you're just creating imbalance in the playing formation, exposing the man at left back.


We just played most of a season with sides like this:
[formation=433, Lloris, Walker, Dawson, Vertonghen, Rose, Paulinho, Sandro, Dembele, Lennon, Adebayor, Eriksen][/formation]... and you're complaining about too much "frilly fucking wankery" and a lack of physicality. You're either drunk, high, or both.

Dembele complained AVB used him in a defensive role (because he was played as a DM). It was Townsend, Soldado and Lennon in the league that were all frills and no trousers. Why would you say was I watching the same games? They made up a massive percentage of our attacking options!

You can combine their assists and prem goals and probably get one top 4 players league output. Dembele had a fraction of shots at goal that Townsend had because he was not given an attacking role. And I know he would have done a hell of a lot better if it were him putting in the 100's of crosses and final balls or dozens of shots Townsend took in the prem this season and he;s not even a winger.

Why would you want Dembele, who had the top dribbles in the team after Townsend making them deep? Why would you want Dembele who has a passing % rate on par with Modric wasting that talent as a DM in his own half? He has one of the best long pass accuracy percentages in the league but all of these qualities are not being taken advantage of in the final third.

Capoue and Sandro should be our DM's. Dembele will help our spine in the final third and be a rock that helps out the weaker Lamela and Eriksen to get some space and add another target (not just Ade being marked out of it because Defoe can't win shit in the prem) next to him). Nobody in the team is as good as shielding the ball as Dembele, and if he is doing that near the box: Who do the defenders watch for the pass sideways or backwatds passes he does so well? Ade? Eriksen? Lamela? They are ALL dangerous out balls he can make to players who can finish.

We struggled in the final third this season because we did not have a genetic freak like Bale making the difference. We need muscle to get us past that parked bus. And Lennon, Townsend, Defoe, Soldado etc were fuckign DIRE. Absolutely turned over possession time and time again because we overloaded the team with tiny dancers who were getting beasted.

And BTW I disagree you putting Paulinho in that frilly category. A lot of his goals were because of his bluster and chaos in the box. He is a physical player. I won't let one or two half challenges or a weak wall let me think otherwise.

It's a long season. And IMO Capoue, Dembele, Sandro, Paulinho and Bentaleb will be key to our prem results. And Lamela and Eriksen should be backed up by Holtby and Siggy.

West Ham last is a microcosm of what happens when you overload the team with players who can't handle the 50/50's.
 
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And BTW I disagree you putting Paulinho in that frilly category. A lot of his goals were because of his bluster and chaos in the box. He is a physical player. I won't let one or two half challenges or a weak wall let me think otherwise.
Going to respond to the rest of it later, just scanned your post and this popped out at me.

Not saying that he's frilly, just that I included him in a list of players that kept shooting and couldn't break through the parked bus, as you said. He was about as wasteful as Soldado last season.

His performances have been very uninspired. By my estimation he impressed in just two fixtures last season, and he'll have to work extremely hard next season if he's going to justify anything more than a spot on the bench. Out of all of our recent signings, he's the one that I'm most pessimistic about, and the reports of his form at the World Cup aren't doing much to persuade me otherwise.
 
Just for a bit of reference on Paulinho, he took 72 shots last season in his 30 league games. 45 of those were from inside the box, a total inside the box that is more than most box-to-box midfielders and many central attacking mids, and even then he only got the ball on target 46% of the time. He wasn't exactly breaking down buses by such numbers either.

The whole team certainly struggled last year, even Eriksen who despite his PotS award and a slew of fantastic performances, also had stretches in which he was entirely anonymous. You all may remember him being dropped in the fall for Holtby due to not doing much in October and November while Holtby was hanging up assists for fun in the cup matches. But it'd interesting to compare in those games in which Eriksen struggled, and the count of forward passes from the central midfield behind him. I'd be willing to bet considerably less than even our already paltry averages from last season.
 
Going to respond to the rest of it later, just scanned your post and this popped out at me.

Not saying that he's frilly, just that I included him in a list of players that kept shooting and couldn't break through the parked bus, as you said. He was about as wasteful as Soldado last season.

His performances have been very uninspired. By my estimation he impressed in just two fixtures last season, and he'll have to work extremely hard next season if he's going to justify anything more than a spot on the bench. Out of all of our recent signings, he's the one that I'm most pessimistic about, and the reports of his form at the World Cup aren't doing much to persuade me otherwise.

I agree with the wasteful aspect but he helps out a lot more than Soldado did in a team aspect in the grubby side of the game. He scored in every competition he's played in this season apart from the world cup. So he has been wasteful but for a midfielder he does have goals in his locker.
 
No, but he could break into the box by dribbling one or two players. That is extremely valuable if it can be done somewhat consistently.

Therein lies the unfortunate problem, as he almost never takes players on just outside the box. So frustrating watching him glide through the middle third and leaving defenders helplessly behind him, only for him to come up against the back line and just pass it to one of the wingers.
 
Dembele complained AVB used him in a defensive role (because he was played as a DM). It was Townsend, Soldado and Lennon in the league that were all frills and no trousers. Why would you say was I watching the same games? They made up a massive percentage of our attacking options!

You can combine their assists and prem goals and probably get one top 4 players league output. Dembele had a fraction of shots at goal that Townsend had because he was not given an attacking role. And I know he would have done a hell of a lot better if it were him putting in the 100's of crosses and final balls or dozens of shots Townsend took in the prem this season and he;s not even a winger.

Why would you want Dembele, who had the top dribbles in the team after Townsend making them deep? Why would you want Dembele who has a passing % rate on par with Modric wasting that talent as a DM in his own half? He has one of the best long pass accuracy percentages in the league but all of these qualities are not being taken advantage of in the final third.

Capoue and Sandro should be our DM's. Dembele will help our spine in the final third and be a rock that helps out the weaker Lamela and Eriksen to get some space and add another target (not just Ade being marked out of it because Defoe can't win shit in the prem) next to him). Nobody in the team is as good as shielding the ball as Dembele, and if he is doing that near the box: Who do the defenders watch for the pass sideways or backwatds passes he does so well? Ade? Eriksen? Lamela? They are ALL dangerous out balls he can make to players who can finish.

We struggled in the final third this season because we did not have a genetic freak like Bale making the difference. We need muscle to get us past that parked bus. And Lennon, Townsend, Defoe, Soldado etc were fuckign DIRE. Absolutely turned over possession time and time again because we overloaded the team with tiny dancers who were getting beasted.

And BTW I disagree you putting Paulinho in that frilly category. A lot of his goals were because of his bluster and chaos in the box. He is a physical player. I won't let one or two half challenges or a weak wall let me think otherwise.

It's a long season. And IMO Capoue, Dembele, Sandro, Paulinho and Bentaleb will be key to our prem results. And Lamela and Eriksen should be backed up by Holtby and Siggy.

West Ham last is a microcosm of what happens when you overload the team with players who can't handle the 50/50's.
Dembele should play deeper because he doesn't do anything that you listed as his strengths around the box. He just doesn't. He doesn't try to dribble by players, he doesn't look for a killer pass, he doesn't get on the ball much around the box. Nobody knows why but watch the first game against Woolwich last season and you'll see it. He has a tendency to drop deeper nowadays and that's why AVB and his national team coach put him as part of a double pivot.

You keep talking about how we had no strength on the field last year but that's all we had. We had no creativity because half of the time our midfield used 3 players like Sandro, Dembele, and Paulinho, just like VirginiaSpur was saying. Our striker was usually the the larger Adebayor or Harry Kane, especially at the end of the year. Muscle doesn't get you past a bus, creativity does. Liverpool didn't play with a holding midfielder all year and finished second. How do you explain that?

And honestly, Soldado wasn't that bad. Everything you say about his has been negative but his hold up play is severely underrated and he's pretty strong for his size. Remember the goal against Villa? I think it was? He battled two defenders to win the ball, played it back then was played in before a cool finish. That is the Soldado that I think you should expect next year after a year of settling in and an entire offseason.
 
Dembele should play deeper because he doesn't do anything that you listed as his strengths around the box. He just doesn't. He doesn't try to dribble by players, he doesn't look for a killer pass, he doesn't get on the ball much around the box. Nobody knows why but watch the first game against Woolwich last season and you'll see it. He has a tendency to drop deeper nowadays and that's why AVB and his national team coach put him as part of a double pivot.

You keep talking about how we had no strength on the field last year but that's all we had. We had no creativity because half of the time our midfield used 3 players like Sandro, Dembele, and Paulinho, just like VirginiaSpur was saying. Our striker was usually the the larger Adebayor or Harry Kane, especially at the end of the year. Muscle doesn't get you past a bus, creativity does. Liverpool didn't play with a holding midfielder all year and finished second. How do you explain that?

And honestly, Soldado wasn't that bad. Everything you say about his has been negative but his hold up play is severely underrated and he's pretty strong for his size. Remember the goal against Villa? I think it was? He battled two defenders to win the ball, played it back then was played in before a cool finish. That is the Soldado that I think you should expect next year after a year of settling in and an entire offseason.

Dembele was used as a dm.

Plain and simple. Why expect action in the final third around the box from a dm?

You expect it from strikers, AM's and wingers.
 
Dembele was used as a dm.

Plain and simple. Why expect action in the final third around the box from a dm?

You expect it from strikers, AM's and wingers.

To be fair, he was brought in specifically as a Modric replacement to provide ball movement and creativity from deep, albeit in a different manner. Dembele uses his dribbling while Modric uses his passing ability.

Ball movement he does better than anyone, but creativity in the final third or even making the pass to set up the assister is just lacking in his game. His numbers going forward are hardly any better than average defensive holding mids, but his defensive numbers aren't as good. If he's going to sit deep and not be instrumental in the defensive game, he has to offer something going forward to merit his place in a side with our aspirations. As of right now, his 22.75 passes forward in a game from a deep position in front of the back line is just not good enough.
 
Dembele was used as a dm.

Plain and simple. Why expect action in the final third around the box from a dm?

You expect it from strikers, AM's and wingers.
Did you look up the Woolwich game like I told you to? Here is the whoscored report on it: http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/719936/Live/England-Premier-League-2013-2014-Woolwich-Tottenham

He lined up as an attacking mid and dropped deeper like I said he's been doing. He still completed 2 dribbles and completed 94% of his passes and guess what, we had absolutely no creativity like I've been saying. Look at the average positions if you don't believe that he played as an attacking mid. They actually show that we lined up in a 4-3-3 where he had license to go forward and he didn't do it regardless. Funnily enough, they also show a problem that explains why Soldado wasn't doing much. Because Dembele dropped deeper, Soldado had to take his deeper position which is why his average position was so deep. How do you expect him to pass well when he has to fill in the attacking mid's position with nobody else in front up help him? That's a whole other problem.
 
Did you look up the Woolwich game like I told you to? Here is the whoscored report on it: http://www.whoscored.com/Matches/719936/Live/England-Premier-League-2013-2014-Woolwich-Tottenham

He lined up as an attacking mid and dropped deeper like I said he's been doing. He still completed 2 dribbles and completed 94% of his passes and guess what, we had absolutely no creativity like I've been saying. Look at the average positions if you don't believe that he played as an attacking mid. They actually show that we lined up in a 4-3-3 where he had license to go forward and he didn't do it regardless. Funnily enough, they also show a problem that explains why Soldado wasn't doing much. Because Dembele dropped deeper, Soldado had to take his deeper position which is why his average position was so deep. How do you expect him to pass well when he has to fill in the attacking mid's position with nobody else in front up help him? That's a whole other problem.

Didn't we dominate possession, have more attacks and win more corners than them in that game?

Don't you think in my use of dembele that having eriksen, ade and Lamela would get you a fuckloaf more goals than soldado, Townsend and Chadli in the same shape?

It kinda proves my point about needing dm's and a player like dembele to act as a base for attackers that can finish.

That game was ours to win. I've said in this thread that Dembele won't get as many goals and assists as Eriksen and Lamela etc. He will impact the game in all aspect that Spurs fans tend to not give a shit about.
 
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For me Dembele, if coached right, could be world class!! He is strong in possession but tends to motor sideways and with his head down more often than not. Great ball retention, but provides and produces little with it. For me he ain't a DM. Get him running North, with his head up. And he will cause any opposition problems!
 
For me Dembele, if coached right, could be world class!! He is strong in possession but tends to motor sideways and with his head down more often than not. Great ball retention, but provides and produces little with it. For me he ain't a DM. Get him running North, with his head up. And he will cause any opposition problems!

Tbf though, he was never intended to be a DM. He sits in front of the back line, but he was brought in with the intent of being a player who could either pickup the ball from deep by his own tackle or the destroyer's (Sandro at the time), and move it forward. He was however, tasked with more defensive responsibility this season considering he only occasionally played next to a destroyer type. The season began with him alongside Paulinho, but you may remember Capoue impressed so much in that first game at Palace that he saw every minute in Prem play until his injury at the Emirates. AVB got his destroyer back, and so he sat him alongside Paulinho and then moved Dembele back to his better position sharing time with Paulinho. Of course, after Capoue as hurt and we tried to get Sandro back up to fitness, Dembele was back to operating as a pseudo-DM alongside Paulinho.

So it wasn't ever really intentional, simply a manifestation of us hoping our CDM (destroyer) situation would work out in terms of fitness, and not having a player altogether different from Dembele to provide another outlet option to make it work with balance of ball movement when he filled in, as both Paulinho and Bentaleb were simply too similar in their passing lanes and positioning. I.e. it just made everyone look worse, and especially against the better sides since that balance was so crucial.
 
Tbf though, he was never intended to be a DM. He sits in front of the back line, but he was brought in with the intent of being a player who could either pickup the ball from deep by his own tackle or the destroyer's (Sandro at the time), and move it forward. He was however, tasked with more defensive responsibility this season considering he only occasionally played next to a destroyer type. The season began with him alongside Paulinho, but you may remember Capoue impressed so much in that first game at Palace that he saw every minute in Prem play until his injury at the Emirates. AVB got his destroyer back, and so he sat him alongside Paulinho and then moved Dembele back to his better position sharing time with Paulinho. Of course, after Capoue as hurt and we tried to get Sandro back up to fitness, Dembele was back to operating as a pseudo-DM alongside Paulinho.

So it wasn't ever really intentional, simply a manifestation of us hoping our CDM (destroyer) situation would work out in terms of fitness, and not having a player altogether different from Dembele to provide another outlet option to make it work with balance of ball movement when he filled in, as both Paulinho and Bentaleb were simply too similar in their passing lanes and positioning. I.e. it just made everyone look worse, and especially against the better sides since that balance was so crucial.
Who is our Destroyer? I can't see one. Sandro has been a liability since he came back from injury.
 
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