Vincent Janssen

  • The Fighting Cock is a forum for fans of Tottenham Hotspur Football Club. Here you can discuss Spurs latest matches, our squad, tactics and any transfer news surrounding the club. Registration gives you access to all our forums (including 'Off Topic' discussion) and removes most of the adverts (you can remove them all via an account upgrade). You're here now, you might as well...

    Get involved!

Latest Spurs videos from Sky Sports

Agree. And there were a whole number of situations where we was in a great position and he wasn't being played in. Could see him getting more and more frustrated as the game went on.
Yup. With good reason. I really hope Pochettino lays into his midfielders over this. Their efforts have not been acceptable.
 
Which ones? The man had 3 shots last night. And his best chance came from a loose ball as no one tried to pass it to him. His other two shots were a poor cross from a set piece and the penalty Given an average player converts maybe 10% of their shots, if he's only getting 3 shot per game, it's going to take him up to 3-4 full games to score anything. Claims he needs to create more himself are trite if no one will pass the ball to him to let him work with it.
A poor cross?? Now you really are making excuses for the guy. He was unmarked.


Did you notice within minutes of coming on Ings had a great chance.
 
A poor cross?? Now you really are making excuses for the guy. He was unmarked.


Did you notice within minutes of coming on Ings had a great chance.
Yeah, also noticed a great ball played to him.

He was unmarked? The last guy in a long line of players trying to get his head on a ball kicked from 30 metres way doesn't strike me as unmarked.
 
Was he? He was meant to be back-up to Kane at best, getting a couple of minutes here and there, giving him time to adapt, but with Kane out he had to take responsibility a lot earlier than was anticipated.
A fair question. However. If he was not bought to play now then it's absolutely criminal neglect from the board and coaching staff. Somehow we got through last season with one proper striker. To expect that to happen two years in a row would be utter madness. We looked light up front with Kane and Jansen. If the plan was really just Kane then I question the real ambition of Poch and Levy.
 
A fair question. However. If he was not bought to play now then it's absolutely criminal neglect from the board and coaching staff. Somehow we got through last season with one proper striker. To expect that to happen two years in a row would be utter madness. We looked light up front with Kane and Jansen. If the plan was really just Kane then I question the real ambition of Poch and Levy.
Yeah it is poor from Poch and Levy imo. They should've bought a reliable third option, someone with experience in England, doesn't have to be a world-class player, just someone who could do a job for the time being to allow Janssen more time to adapt and take the pressure off him. Janssen has potential, but will need time to develop and adapt, but with Kane injured there is no time unfortunately.
 
In before the "not scored from open play" stuff....

dzoyD85.jpg
 
Why isn't Vincent Janssen scoring?

Why Vincent Janssen isn't scoring goals


There's been a lot of talk in the media about Vincent Janssen's underwhelming start to life at Spurs, and although as a fanbase we've seen the great hold up work he does and are mostly preaching patience, a grand total of two goals from the penalty spot in his first couple of months at the club aren't going to make the Soldado comparisons go away (and nor am I).

One common explanation you hear is that he's doing too much work in the wrong part of the pitch. That he should be getting in the box rather than helping out on the wing. A look at yesterday's passing map could back this up. These are the passes to Janssen, i.e. the end of every yellow arrow is where he received the ball:

oL-annMdfY3Gh_n3ZpMNSUGXVhVlwpZoPpDbJ0qkCLAora-f8U0GuyWqGwrhT66nZqw_xNVl1g=w333-h220-rw


Notice all the times he's helping out on the left, and the big empty space in the middle where you'd typically want your centre forward to be?

However, these passing maps only show on-ball actions, and watching last night's game it became apparent that the cause and effect of this theory is mixed up. Janssen moves out wide to get involved in the game, because when he's in the middle, making the runs we want him to make, he's not going to end up with a little yellow arrow.

ea3FXKS0eoiOMYdSJSj9FX13SnLi7p0W9-hVbMhzC9pUdjSCukJqGjfrzcGq_281NSdRzuRSuA=w391-h220-rw


In that clip there were two clear chances to play him through, first it went wide and then much to Janssen's dismay Nkoudou took a speculative shot rather than make the easy pass.

Want some more examples from yesterday? There were plenty. Watch Janssen's positioning and body language in the following instances. I haven't highlighted him but to help you out, he's the one on the shoulder of the last man, pointing where he wants the ball to be played:

bNtUFq7ZRlq4kHY59br3Jpt4ulaI8-GRTZyBpgxsmtbQiOT_IJS2LYuu97sI1LfGpKTbwIZsmQ=w391-h220-rw
x3U2R7AWrMr2lC9Sv1qpBg7p6_9yyVbowWwR6g0U9sobm_3r8l1e4LsRHXhjXZP8db24aNFH5g=w391-h220-rw
hYeuD7rO8VoofGCOdvc2_GiNQhtNTFrPi1HoCK-11bCOJNOPb-aqN8hVa5M_733N_yXzu8GyXw=w391-h220-rw


Our game plan does not seem to be to look for Janssen early but instead to spread the ball wide and try to hit him with a cross.

To make this point more clearly, here is that passing map again but only showing balls he received from the attacking band - that's Onomah, Carroll, Nkoudou, Lamela and Harrison:

uW6tPYaK3kAHJy7fFaD_C_9u3gxRkVKyfW9LNhVVLJJBSBsx9eQEfJoy7veCgYImLZnKq7gmsA=w333-h220-rw


He received more balls from Davies than from all of them put together.

It isn't just our youth-teamers who are guilty of this. Looking at WhoScored stats for the Premier League, only three Spurs players have played a successful through ball this season. One is Janssen himself, and another is Son, who at the moment seems to be playing as an alternative rather than a compliment to Janssen. (The other is Alli, who also sat out yesterday's game).

If we're moving forwards the AMs always look to play the ball wide, and if Janssen wants to get involved then his best bet is to move out there to receive it. Last night only one cross from Trippier found Janssen in the box, similarly Walker and Rose do provide excellent attacking width but neither is noted for their crossing ability, so it's no surprise that our attack seems stodgy at the moment.

The Soldado comparison may be unpopular but when he first arrived he was making futile runs behind the defence too, until he decided it wasn't worth it and altered his game to get more involved. Soldado might not have been successful in England but his time here helped him transition from one of the leading scorers in Spain, to one of the leading creators there three years later.

It is surely far more beneficial to alter our team plan slightly this time than for Janssen to similarly alter his game. Spurs should look to vary their attack with more quick balls through the middle, and hopefully once this happens Janssen will be able to add goals to his otherwise excellent play.

He received more balls from Davies than from all of them put together.

Shocking stat.
 
Yeah, also noticed a great ball played to him.

He was unmarked? The last guy in a long line of players trying to get his head on a ball kicked from 30 metres way doesn't strike me as unmarked.
The last guy with no one near him couldn't get himself in the correct position and direct his header on target .
 
Why isn't Vincent Janssen scoring?

Why Vincent Janssen isn't scoring goals


There's been a lot of talk in the media about Vincent Janssen's underwhelming start to life at Spurs, and although as a fanbase we've seen the great hold up work he does and are mostly preaching patience, a grand total of two goals from the penalty spot in his first couple of months at the club aren't going to make the Soldado comparisons go away (and nor am I).

One common explanation you hear is that he's doing too much work in the wrong part of the pitch. That he should be getting in the box rather than helping out on the wing. A look at yesterday's passing map could back this up. These are the passes to Janssen, i.e. the end of every yellow arrow is where he received the ball:

oL-annMdfY3Gh_n3ZpMNSUGXVhVlwpZoPpDbJ0qkCLAora-f8U0GuyWqGwrhT66nZqw_xNVl1g=w333-h220-rw


Notice all the times he's helping out on the left, and the big empty space in the middle where you'd typically want your centre forward to be?

However, these passing maps only show on-ball actions, and watching last night's game it became apparent that the cause and effect of this theory is mixed up. Janssen moves out wide to get involved in the game, because when he's in the middle, making the runs we want him to make, he's not going to end up with a little yellow arrow.

ea3FXKS0eoiOMYdSJSj9FX13SnLi7p0W9-hVbMhzC9pUdjSCukJqGjfrzcGq_281NSdRzuRSuA=w391-h220-rw


In that clip there were two clear chances to play him through, first it went wide and then much to Janssen's dismay Nkoudou took a speculative shot rather than make the easy pass.

Want some more examples from yesterday? There were plenty. Watch Janssen's positioning and body language in the following instances. I haven't highlighted him but to help you out, he's the one on the shoulder of the last man, pointing where he wants the ball to be played:

bNtUFq7ZRlq4kHY59br3Jpt4ulaI8-GRTZyBpgxsmtbQiOT_IJS2LYuu97sI1LfGpKTbwIZsmQ=w391-h220-rw
x3U2R7AWrMr2lC9Sv1qpBg7p6_9yyVbowWwR6g0U9sobm_3r8l1e4LsRHXhjXZP8db24aNFH5g=w391-h220-rw
hYeuD7rO8VoofGCOdvc2_GiNQhtNTFrPi1HoCK-11bCOJNOPb-aqN8hVa5M_733N_yXzu8GyXw=w391-h220-rw


Our game plan does not seem to be to look for Janssen early but instead to spread the ball wide and try to hit him with a cross.

To make this point more clearly, here is that passing map again but only showing balls he received from the attacking band - that's Onomah, Carroll, Nkoudou, Lamela and Harrison:

uW6tPYaK3kAHJy7fFaD_C_9u3gxRkVKyfW9LNhVVLJJBSBsx9eQEfJoy7veCgYImLZnKq7gmsA=w333-h220-rw


He received more balls from Davies than from all of them put together.

It isn't just our youth-teamers who are guilty of this. Looking at WhoScored stats for the Premier League, only three Spurs players have played a successful through ball this season. One is Janssen himself, and another is Son, who at the moment seems to be playing as an alternative rather than a compliment to Janssen. (The other is Alli, who also sat out yesterday's game).

If we're moving forwards the AMs always look to play the ball wide, and if Janssen wants to get involved then his best bet is to move out there to receive it. Last night only one cross from Trippier found Janssen in the box, similarly Walker and Rose do provide excellent attacking width but neither is noted for their crossing ability, so it's no surprise that our attack seems stodgy at the moment.

The Soldado comparison may be unpopular but when he first arrived he was making futile runs behind the defence too, until he decided it wasn't worth it and altered his game to get more involved. Soldado might not have been successful in England but his time here helped him transition from one of the leading scorers in Spain, to one of the leading creators there three years later.

It is surely far more beneficial to alter our team plan slightly this time than for Janssen to similarly alter his game. Spurs should look to vary their attack with more quick balls through the middle, and hopefully once this happens Janssen will be able to add goals to his otherwise excellent play.



Shocking stat.
Poch has never played his CF within the width of the 18yrd box. Kane, was criticised by many pundits (Shearer in-particular) for "not" playing within the width of the penalty box. If anyone doesn't like our CF pulling out wide and dropping deep then this has nothing to do with the player but how Poch wants his CF to play. No issue whatsoever debating this "function" but it is wrong to criticise the player for doing what the manager wants him to do.

Of the two, Kane last year and the season before excelled at taking the ball with his back to goal but creating space for himself to turn with his first touch (something he couldn't replicate for Eng or us at the beginning of the year). Janssen doesn't look to turn but he holds the ball up with his back to goal and waits for a player to offload. For me this is the biggest difference between Kane and Janssen. This system works if we have at least 3 players to play angles off (triangle). When it doesn't work is when the distances between players is far, the clips show this. There is an argument that we should "mix it up a bit", a first time ball to Janssen might have enabled him to drop a shoulder, or let the ball run across him and turn. However, it is a higher risk option though as a) Pass has to be inch and pace perfect b) hit first time c) Janssen has to know that the ball to him is for him to turn and not hold up. d) It then relies on Janssen beating the defence on his own. Basically the % of the opportunity diminishes. The counter argument is we loose momentum of the attack as the player on the ball is looking for an overload opportunity and slows it down by a) not releasing the ball b) slowing it down by cutting inside (if out wide) c) or slowing it down by passing out wide (if in middle).

Spurs always look for an overload in an area of the pitch and in the examples shown, had the ball gone to Janssen there is no overload and therefore the likely outcome is for him to lose the ball as he is outnumbered by Oppo players. It has little to do with Janssen and more to do with the 3 behind and the fullbacks supporting the attack by being closer to the striker and having numbers to create an overload.

FWIW
I think he is nothing like Soldado. I recall loads of people defending Soldado by saying his link-up play was good, I thought his link-up play in the main was shit. I didn't see anything positive about Soldado in a Spurs shirt, I thought he was shit both with and without the ball.

I like Janssen, I like his aggression, work-rate and hold up. So far his weakness is that he is predictable, if I was a defender I am only looking for him to hold-up the ball and back into me, he isn't looking to turn and attack. I don't know if this is deliberate ploy from Poch i.e. Keeping it simple and do the basics right or that he isn't very good at getting the ball out of his feet and trying to turn a defender.....Time will tell.
 
Poch has never played his CF within the width of the 18yrd box. Kane, was criticised by many pundits (Shearer in-particular) for "not" playing within the width of the penalty box. If anyone doesn't like our CF pulling out wide and dropping deep then this has nothing to do with the player but how Poch wants his CF to play. No issue whatsoever debating this "function" but it is wrong to criticise the player for doing what the manager wants him to do.

Of the two, Kane last year and the season before excelled at taking the ball with his back to goal but creating space for himself to turn with his first touch (something he couldn't replicate for Eng or us at the beginning of the year). Janssen doesn't look to turn but he holds the ball up with his back to goal and waits for a player to offload. For me this is the biggest difference between Kane and Janssen. This system works if we have at least 3 players to play angles off (triangle). When it doesn't work is when the distances between players is far, the clips show this. There is an argument that we should "mix it up a bit", a first time ball to Janssen might have enabled him to drop a shoulder, or let the ball run across him and turn. However, it is a higher risk option though as a) Pass has to be inch and pace perfect b) hit first time c) Janssen has to know that the ball to him is for him to turn and not hold up. d) It then relies on Janssen beating the defence on his own. Basically the % of the opportunity diminishes. The counter argument is we loose momentum of the attack as the player on the ball is looking for an overload opportunity and slows it down by a) not releasing the ball b) slowing it down by cutting inside (if out wide) c) or slowing it down by passing out wide (if in middle).

Spurs always look for an overload in an area of the pitch and in the examples shown, had the ball gone to Janssen there is no overload and therefore the likely outcome is for him to lose the ball as he is outnumbered by Oppo players. It has little to do with Janssen and more to do with the 3 behind and the fullbacks supporting the attack by being closer to the striker and having numbers to create an overload.

FWIW
I think he is nothing like Soldado. I recall loads of people defending Soldado by saying his link-up play was good, I thought his link-up play in the main was shit. I didn't see anything positive about Soldado in a Spurs shirt, I thought he was shit both with and without the ball.

I like Janssen, I like his aggression, work-rate and hold up. So far his weakness is that he is predictable, if I was a defender I am only looking for him to hold-up the ball and back into me, he isn't looking to turn and attack. I don't know if this is deliberate ploy from Poch i.e. Keeping it simple and do the basics right or that he isn't very good at getting the ball out of his feet and trying to turn a defender.....Time will tell.


Take your point on Soldado, it wasn't so much his link up play as he could pass but his lack of strength and speed, every ball passed up to him was taken off him by the defender, he was in every defenders pocket each and every game. He only looked good in very deep positions acting like a midfielder making a pass, he did not have the physical game to play the lone striker role.

What Gascoigne8 posted is very true, I have noticed in many previous games Janssen looking to run on the defenders shoulder and our players delaying causing the run to be pointless Either Janssen adapts his game or we adapt but you can see why Poch got rid of Defoe, he would be useless in that system.
 
Take your point on Soldado, it wasn't so much his link up play as he could pass but his lack of strength and speed, every ball passed up to him was taken off him by the defender, he was in every defenders pocket each and every game. He only looked good in very deep positions acting like a midfielder making a pass, he did not have the physical game to play the lone striker role.

What Gascoigne8 posted is very true, I have noticed in many previous games Janssen looking to run on the defenders shoulder and our players delaying causing the run to be pointless Either Janssen adapts his game or we adapt but you can see why Poch got rid of Defoe, he would be useless in that system.


Going on from that I've noticed Lamela continually getting in good positions to receive a pass but ignored!
But feel sure Poch will address it in time
 
Why isn't Vincent Janssen scoring?

Why Vincent Janssen isn't scoring goals


There's been a lot of talk in the media about Vincent Janssen's underwhelming start to life at Spurs, and although as a fanbase we've seen the great hold up work he does and are mostly preaching patience, a grand total of two goals from the penalty spot in his first couple of months at the club aren't going to make the Soldado comparisons go away (and nor am I).

One common explanation you hear is that he's doing too much work in the wrong part of the pitch. That he should be getting in the box rather than helping out on the wing. A look at yesterday's passing map could back this up. These are the passes to Janssen, i.e. the end of every yellow arrow is where he received the ball:

oL-annMdfY3Gh_n3ZpMNSUGXVhVlwpZoPpDbJ0qkCLAora-f8U0GuyWqGwrhT66nZqw_xNVl1g=w333-h220-rw


Notice all the times he's helping out on the left, and the big empty space in the middle where you'd typically want your centre forward to be?

However, these passing maps only show on-ball actions, and watching last night's game it became apparent that the cause and effect of this theory is mixed up. Janssen moves out wide to get involved in the game, because when he's in the middle, making the runs we want him to make, he's not going to end up with a little yellow arrow.

ea3FXKS0eoiOMYdSJSj9FX13SnLi7p0W9-hVbMhzC9pUdjSCukJqGjfrzcGq_281NSdRzuRSuA=w391-h220-rw


In that clip there were two clear chances to play him through, first it went wide and then much to Janssen's dismay Nkoudou took a speculative shot rather than make the easy pass.

Want some more examples from yesterday? There were plenty. Watch Janssen's positioning and body language in the following instances. I haven't highlighted him but to help you out, he's the one on the shoulder of the last man, pointing where he wants the ball to be played:

bNtUFq7ZRlq4kHY59br3Jpt4ulaI8-GRTZyBpgxsmtbQiOT_IJS2LYuu97sI1LfGpKTbwIZsmQ=w391-h220-rw
x3U2R7AWrMr2lC9Sv1qpBg7p6_9yyVbowWwR6g0U9sobm_3r8l1e4LsRHXhjXZP8db24aNFH5g=w391-h220-rw
hYeuD7rO8VoofGCOdvc2_GiNQhtNTFrPi1HoCK-11bCOJNOPb-aqN8hVa5M_733N_yXzu8GyXw=w391-h220-rw


Our game plan does not seem to be to look for Janssen early but instead to spread the ball wide and try to hit him with a cross.

To make this point more clearly, here is that passing map again but only showing balls he received from the attacking band - that's Onomah, Carroll, Nkoudou, Lamela and Harrison:

uW6tPYaK3kAHJy7fFaD_C_9u3gxRkVKyfW9LNhVVLJJBSBsx9eQEfJoy7veCgYImLZnKq7gmsA=w333-h220-rw


He received more balls from Davies than from all of them put together.

It isn't just our youth-teamers who are guilty of this. Looking at WhoScored stats for the Premier League, only three Spurs players have played a successful through ball this season. One is Janssen himself, and another is Son, who at the moment seems to be playing as an alternative rather than a compliment to Janssen. (The other is Alli, who also sat out yesterday's game).

If we're moving forwards the AMs always look to play the ball wide, and if Janssen wants to get involved then his best bet is to move out there to receive it. Last night only one cross from Trippier found Janssen in the box, similarly Walker and Rose do provide excellent attacking width but neither is noted for their crossing ability, so it's no surprise that our attack seems stodgy at the moment.

The Soldado comparison may be unpopular but when he first arrived he was making futile runs behind the defence too, until he decided it wasn't worth it and altered his game to get more involved. Soldado might not have been successful in England but his time here helped him transition from one of the leading scorers in Spain, to one of the leading creators there three years later.

It is surely far more beneficial to alter our team plan slightly this time than for Janssen to similarly alter his game. Spurs should look to vary their attack with more quick balls through the middle, and hopefully once this happens Janssen will be able to add goals to his otherwise excellent play.



Shocking stat.

Poch has never played his CF within the width of the 18yrd box. Kane, was criticised by many pundits (Shearer in-particular) for "not" playing within the width of the penalty box. If anyone doesn't like our CF pulling out wide and dropping deep then this has nothing to do with the player but how Poch wants his CF to play. No issue whatsoever debating this "function" but it is wrong to criticise the player for doing what the manager wants him to do.

Of the two, Kane last year and the season before excelled at taking the ball with his back to goal but creating space for himself to turn with his first touch (something he couldn't replicate for Eng or us at the beginning of the year). Janssen doesn't look to turn but he holds the ball up with his back to goal and waits for a player to offload. For me this is the biggest difference between Kane and Janssen. This system works if we have at least 3 players to play angles off (triangle). When it doesn't work is when the distances between players is far, the clips show this. There is an argument that we should "mix it up a bit", a first time ball to Janssen might have enabled him to drop a shoulder, or let the ball run across him and turn. However, it is a higher risk option though as a) Pass has to be inch and pace perfect b) hit first time c) Janssen has to know that the ball to him is for him to turn and not hold up. d) It then relies on Janssen beating the defence on his own. Basically the % of the opportunity diminishes. The counter argument is we loose momentum of the attack as the player on the ball is looking for an overload opportunity and slows it down by a) not releasing the ball b) slowing it down by cutting inside (if out wide) c) or slowing it down by passing out wide (if in middle).

Spurs always look for an overload in an area of the pitch and in the examples shown, had the ball gone to Janssen there is no overload and therefore the likely outcome is for him to lose the ball as he is outnumbered by Oppo players. It has little to do with Janssen and more to do with the 3 behind and the fullbacks supporting the attack by being closer to the striker and having numbers to create an overload.

FWIW
I think he is nothing like Soldado. I recall loads of people defending Soldado by saying his link-up play was good, I thought his link-up play in the main was shit. I didn't see anything positive about Soldado in a Spurs shirt, I thought he was shit both with and without the ball.

I like Janssen, I like his aggression, work-rate and hold up. So far his weakness is that he is predictable, if I was a defender I am only looking for him to hold-up the ball and back into me, he isn't looking to turn and attack. I don't know if this is deliberate ploy from Poch i.e. Keeping it simple and do the basics right or that he isn't very good at getting the ball out of his feet and trying to turn a defender.....Time will tell.

I feel like the Liverpool game was an extreme example of our reluctance to play high risk through balls as opposed to retaining possession wide, pinging it crossfield or even (cringe) backwards.

As i said in the match thread; we did seem bright and positive and played without fear for the first ten mins. Once they'd hit us on the break for the goal we seemed much more reluctant to lose possession. Still, no excuses for the regular attacking three / four.

You could see how frustrated Jansen is becoming from his body language on Tuesday. The header he had from the free kick. He kept putting his hand up and then down again like he knew there was little chance that the ball was gonna come to him, when he actually won the header he looked surprised (could have timed his run better to be fair).
 
For me the issue is purely to blame on

1) The team. Countless times he points behind him and no one passes. So many times yesterday there was a counter attack and people played it wide left to GK rather than trying to slip in Jenssen. He makes a large amounts of runs in behind, hence why he's often offside, yet the ball is rarely played to him. Same thing happened to Lamela 2 years ago, the team simply wouldn't give him the ball.

2) Poch. Poch is clearly asking him to be a target man and I think Janssen is getting a bit fed up and angry at the situation. He throws his arms around a lot, whether at the ref or his team mates. Looks frustrated and that's only going to get worse and negatively impact his performances.
 
I agree a lot of what people are saying and the way forward may be helped once Kane is back and Dembele is back to his best. They may be able to find him better than the current midfielders. Once Kane is back Janssen will get less opportunities and will need to watch Kane and hopefully try and emulate how he turns and shoots. It will take time but you cannot expect to get a top class striker ready to play in the premier league and score 20 goals a season for £17m or whatever we paid.
 
He is showing enough not to worry too much.
I don't think we are the best team for a striker to join. So we have to be patient with him.
Give him until bonfire night at least.
 
For me the issue is purely to blame on

1) The team. Countless times he points behind him and no one passes. So many times yesterday there was a counter attack and people played it wide left to GK rather than trying to slip in Jenssen. He makes a large amounts of runs in behind, hence why he's often offside, yet the ball is rarely played to him. Same thing happened to Lamela 2 years ago, the team simply wouldn't give him the ball.

2) Poch. Poch is clearly asking him to be a target man and I think Janssen is getting a bit fed up and angry at the situation. He throws his arms around a lot, whether at the ref or his team mates. Looks frustrated and that's only going to get worse and negatively impact his performances.
this post is unreal. So literally everyone is to blame bar the player himself? What about the start of the season when Janssen was simply missing good chances...who was at fault then?
 
Back
Top Bottom