Gothamizm from The Fighting Cock Forum talks about a miserable day at White Hart Lane. When did the Lane become such a quiet and fractured arena?
Missing: The White Hart Lane atmosphere
Tottenham Hotspur. It’s a grand old team to play for and it’s a grand old team to see. That’s how the song goes, anyway. The club thrives. Partnerships are made with sporting and industrial giants around the world. Steady and reliable progress has been witnessed over a decade to the point we have reached now.
That desired status of perennial nearly-men.
We’re in the hunt for top four – that fictional trophy that we berate our new neighbours for chasing – and out of the cups. We’re in Europe – but not the kind of Europe we want to be in. There are, of course, the usual catalogue of reasons.
Player integration, then displacement. Managerial disorganisation and subsequent replacement. Director of Football – are we in or out? A pattern of questionable boardroom-level decisions.
[authquoteleft text=”We just file in, having swiped our ENIC-approved Security Passes at the gates, shuffle along to our seats[/linequote]
But you saunter down Bill Nicholson Way at five minutes to three on a Saturday it just isn’t the cauldron of activity it used to be. There are plenty of people in replica kits munching on burgers they’ll regret ingesting in a few short hours but nary a cry of, “Yid Army!” to be heard. We just file in, having swiped our ENIC-approved Security Passes at the gates, shuffle along to our seats.
Hear that noisy South London lot (no, not them) making a racket as if they’re pleased they finally got to use one of those trains – you know the ones, they go under the ground, as it were?
It’s a shock. Away fans, of course, do give it more but this lot seem genuinely pleased to just be here. It’s as if they’re not waiting to be entertained – they’re here to enjoy themselves even if they get spanked.
The match kicks-off and we give it a few choruses of “Come On You Spurs” and “Oh When The Spurs” and even “Super Tottenham From The Lane.” However it all seems inconsequential when that lot are just going absolutely bonkers for no reason for the first 6 minutes. Then – oh, look. A penalty.
Magically though Jason Puncheon fires it into the deep blue yonder. But the Palace fans go even more bananas. They don’t let it get them down – the on-pitch action is barely an adjunct to what’s already proving to be a great day out.
[linequote] It’s as if they’re not waiting to be entertained – they’re here to enjoy themselves even if they get spanked[/linequote]
I’m left with the feeling like “that’s” what football is meant to be about: singing for the team you love, whether those in Spurs shirts provide a yawnfest, a decimation or a capitulation. But we let them insult us. We let them draw comparisons between N17 and the Death Star. Then it’s half time, now I hear, now I hear the boos.
What happened to just singing because it was a joy and a privilege to support this grand old team?
What happened to encouraging our beautiful boys in Lilywhite to dare and therefore, to do?
It all just faded because we had an anaemic performance on the pitch. No wonder the play is flat: the players and fans alike are crushed by the weight of expectation to the point where the most notable noise in 45 minutes of football is the boos of those behind me because we’re not winning after the worst half of football this ground has seen in, well, not that long, really.
So we kick off again. And there it is – a goal. We’re happy to mug them off. We take the piss and have a right old laugh. They pause to take breath and we have a go at “You’re not singing any more.” Except they are.
They’re still having the same great time they were when they were drawing. The football’s picked up from Spurs and the crowd is still as flat as it was before. The game ends 2-0. The Palace fans are still out-singing us at the end. I have a hard time believing that anyone in the crowd wearing Lilywhite enjoyed that experience as much as any Palace fan did.
[authquoteright text=”The players and fans alike are crushed by the weight of expectation to the point where the most notable noise in 45 minutes[/linequote]
In this difficult, fractured time, the fan-base is being torn apart by divisive appointments and the mismanagement of various players for whom we have high hopes. Opinions are like arseholes – everyone’s got one – but it seems like right now, everyone wants theirs to be the prominent orifice in the room.
That dissatisfaction has filtered through into the stands. It’s like Year 9 chemistry – a broken fanbase + expectations = White Hart Lane on Saturday. We’re those fans who sing when we’re winning and who moan, boo, curse, scream and froth at the mouth as soon as things aren’t perfect.
Tottenham may be a grand old team to play for and a grand old team to see but some denizens of the Lane are overlooking that fact. It seems like a crisp Saturday afternoon in January against London minnows is the perfect reason to turn up and sing up but instead, we were embarrassed by real fans giving everything for their players.
Thank God we’ve got some away games coming up.
[author name=”Gothamizm” avatar=”https://www.thefightingcock.co.uk/forum/data/avatars/l/0/471.jpg?1367798075″ twitter=”Gothamizm” tag=”Gothamizm[/linequote]
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49 Comments
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13/01/2014 @ 3:22 pm
It’s true, and very disappointing. It’s embarrassing because you wonder what the players must think who have just turned up and are wondering why for the first time in their lives, their own fans are booing the fuck out of them.
Stubhub? Casual support? Tourists? Who knows, but rocking atmosphere’s that inspire a team haven’t been seen since Harry left.
13/01/2014 @ 6:12 pm
“Rocking atmospheres” haven’t featured at the Lane since long before Harry left, sadly.
13/01/2014 @ 6:18 pm
I disagree. I’ve been going to the lane regularly since 1970 and witnessed some great European nights but the night against Inter in the CL was one of my all time great nights
13/01/2014 @ 7:59 pm
I think the atmosphere hasn’t been the same since the Martin Jol days.
I remember the UEFA Cup game against Seville in 2007 at the Lane. From half time onwards, Park Lane sung “Martin Jol’s Blue & White army” for about 30 minutes straight.
13/01/2014 @ 3:23 pm
Totally agree GOTHAMIZM. I’m utterly embarrassed by our home fans this season. The cup games are a usually a bit better because some of the ‘loyal’ season ticket holders can’t be bothered to turn up. They could do us all a favour and don’t bother to re-new their tickets then we might get some more enthusiastic fans in the ground (I am a season ticket holder in Block 39 and around us we always try to make some noise)
13/01/2014 @ 3:24 pm
Agree with so many of these points, over the years the lane has become more and more quiet. It needs a revival, I was right next to the Palace fans for the game, they were having a great time.
The atmosphere was dreary, and I understand that the fans need to get behind the boys, it would be really nice if they would show a little sparkle to encourage them though. There is a disjointedness to the team, and although he has had a great start to his management career, there is something about Sherwood which leaves me concerned.
The most disappointing thing is that we laboured through 45 minutes of “football” and the player who I thought was showing the most passion was Maroune Chamahk.
It does have to change, but I do not entirely blame the fans for an ability to get behind a team that does not look motivated. The next “Mr Tottenham Hotspur” has a big job to do!
13/01/2014 @ 3:43 pm
I agree with you in so much that the atmosphere at the Lane has dwindled somewhat over the past couple of years. Perhaps is the weight of expectation coupled with the failure to rise to the level we reached under (I hate to say it) Redknapp. The excitement of playing with a swagger and winning games with tremendous football made everyone get fully behind the team which made WHL a scary place for the away team and it’s fans for that matter. Perhaps us Spurs fans see the club returning to mediocrity instead of progressing, despite winning games albeit with unimpressive displayers. The media and assorted bloggers cannot wait to put the boot in including some so called Spurs fans and continually link our players to other clubs without a shred of evidence to back up their statements. I suppose they can say what they want as we all know that a high enough offer for any of our star players will be accepted by Levy and co which means that we constantly have to start all over again on the treadmill. Are we fans fed up with the entire mess? perhaps so. I love THFC, always will but I am getting pretty fed up with the uncertainty and stop go stance of the board. If only we could find another Billy Nick or a Keith Burkenshaw.
13/01/2014 @ 3:46 pm
Maybe it’s also the mismanagement of the fans…StubHub, the Yid word etc.
Personally, taking loyalty points off me left me v cheesed off and there’s a nagging resentfulness on my part. I’ll never boo the team (never have) but to be honest I’ve found it hard to work up any enthusiasm after that. At the moment, I turn up, watch the game and go home whereas in the past it was different.
Also, a lot of fellow fans have been priced out and a lot of pubs have shut down…all leading to a loss of camaraderie.
At least I was there in the good old days!
13/01/2014 @ 4:03 pm
There’s hardly a lack of pubs, to be fair
13/01/2014 @ 4:38 pm
I was trying to point out that several pubs that many of us went to for many years have closed. These are pubs we ran coaches or mini buses from. Those contacts have fallen by the wayside when we went to others and lost touch. The old Chequers (Bootlaces) being a prime example. Now you only see faces at Euro away games. Shame really.
Wish 1882 all the best and agree that THST is toothless, although well intentioned.
13/01/2014 @ 4:39 pm
Forgot to say Sunday games dont help at all!
13/01/2014 @ 6:59 pm
Totally agree with all your points.To give my whole life to the club,at the expense of jobs,holidays,stacks of money,relationships,only to be told my loyalty now only consists of the last 4 years? Levy stunk the place out with that one,still rankles
13/01/2014 @ 3:49 pm
In Tim I trust
13/01/2014 @ 6:17 pm
You won’t be saying that soon… Sadly #COYS
15/01/2014 @ 11:56 am
Why do you say that? How does that help anyone or anything? What is the point of that comment? Just because you don’t think he is the right man for the job doesn’t mean that we should all be so disgustingly negative about everything. Also we can all claim to know everything about football but all fans, of every club continuously make judgements having no facts at all, and how can we have, we don’t sit in board meetings, we are not at the training ground everyday. I personally have never seen Tim Sherwood take a training session, or seen him do a half time or pre match team talk, so I can safely say I have no idea how good a coach he is. What I have seen is his team play a few games and do pretty well up to now. I don’t know how long he will be manager for, if he will be any good, or how good his methods are, but I do know one thing and that is that he is the current Tottenham Hotspur manager and for that reason he will get my total and utter 100% support no matter what happens and that goes for anyone that wears our famous badge on their shirt. Also whats more is that I will see it as a privilege and will be excited every time I go to White Hart Lane and watch the team I love. COYS
13/01/2014 @ 3:50 pm
…the team and the fans have got themselves into this negative downward spiral.
The performances on the pitch aren’t exactly inspiring, so the crowds enthusiasm has diminished and that has not helped to inspire the team.
However, someone has to start things off, and I believe we simply have to get behind the team…..be vocal…..spur them on….and they will deliver…..COYS!
13/01/2014 @ 3:56 pm
What are you talking about? We are 5th in the league and currently scoring plenty of goals. You could use that excuse if you were Wham fan (they really do have a dreadful, poisonous atmos there, by the way), but not as a spurs fan
13/01/2014 @ 3:53 pm
It was better under Harry and Jol, that’s for sure. The football was so fking dismal under AVB that it might be taking a while for the crowd to wake up again. That said, this was Crystal Palace, about the smallest, least glam opposition we could face. In fairness the atmos has never been up to much against smaller teams.
Believe it or not, it’s been worse. In the mid to late 90s it was utterly dismal, whl was known by oppo fans as being the quietest ground in the league. I remember playing wolves in a cup match that we won easily enough, and it was so quiet in the home end that the wolves fans starting singing songs for us! The whole time under GG, barring matches vs arse and Man U, was so quiet that you could literally hear the players shouting at each other. I actually dreaded friends who supported other teams asking if I could get them tickets for the lane – I didn’t want them to know how dismal the atmos was. I watched Barnet and Orient a bit back then, and both grounds had far more noise than whl despite less than 10% of the attendance. It was getting like that again earlier this season – not surprising given the similarity between the football played of AVB and GGs teams
13/01/2014 @ 3:53 pm
Palace supporters are the best in the league at the moment. Everyone has good away fans, but their home support is fabulous. Not a whinge, not a moan, just singing. It’s also because their expectations are relatively low – yet Pulis’s organisation of the team has given them big hope. I think the problem at Spurs’ home games is anxiety, plus the fact there are still far too many pro AVB and anti AVB people. We all need to understand that we don’t really know what goes on behind the scenes and that the only important thing is the team. TS is doing a good job, without much chance to get the full squad on the training ground. We should be right behind him to a man, but instead it’s nit-picking about things we don’t really know about. I wanted Harry to do well, but was appalled at his courting of the England job, and the court case, and the subsequent form dip; I wanted AVB to do well, was sad when he left. But I’m impressed by TS – he talks honestly, doesn’t pretend we were good when we weren’t and wants to push us to improve. Also like the fact we’re introducing younger, homegrown players again. What I’m saying is, sod it all, just support the team. Like the Palace song goes, be ‘glad all over’.
13/01/2014 @ 4:00 pm
I haven’t met a single person who goes to games who doesn’t think AVB should have gone, and isn’t fking pleased that he has done. The only pro AVB fans I’ve ever encountered are all online, and by their own admission not regular attenders. When you give up your day, put up with the difficult journey and pay a fortune, the least you expect is to be entertained. Professor Villas Boaz, the football coach who never played football, never quite got his head around that. i genuinely think he still doesn’t realise why the fans turned on him so quickly after Bale stopped, u-hum, bailing and his dismal football out
13/01/2014 @ 7:08 pm
Spot on mate,and the malaise left after AVB might take a while to wear off.
13/01/2014 @ 10:04 pm
What utter rubbish.
I’m a season ticket holder and have been for as long as I remember.
I was all for AVB and his style of football. I am for progression, and I, like a lot of fellow season ticket holders felt confident that given time, things would have been very good indeed on and off the field.
I am not happy with Tim, I’m not happy with 442, I’m not happy with the leaky roof, I’m not happy with the pies, I’m not happy with a lot of things at the lane!
I’m a spurs fan though and I don’t care about AVB or Dim or the bloody pies for that matter.
It’s all this morons that have made it their mission to blame AVB for everything that was happening at the lane and living in the bloody past with their HR or MJ or OA fixations– until all this stops there will not be an atmosphere at the lane.
Get behind the team, whatever muppet is in the dugout, We will have bad days, we will play crap, we will lose at home, we will regret the burgers in the morning……who cares!!!!
I go to support my team, not play football manager for 90 mns.
13/01/2014 @ 3:54 pm
Embarrassed, booing, dreary, dissatisfaction, the behaviour of Spurs home fans is renown and becoming a major plus to our opponents. We are now the laughing (or should it be crying) stock for other clubs fans. A mental disease has developed in the White Hart Lane any Manager and team will find it impossible to alter this deep set booing attitude rampant at our club
13/01/2014 @ 3:57 pm
Without some clear response from Levy we are sleepwalking towards disillusionment. The absence of any response to the ‘Yids survey’, the StubHub fiasco, the sacking of AVB with no statement of intent, the appointment of Sherwood (ditto), the Trust proving to be toothless and unrepresentative (when am I going to hear from regarding my registering to become a member): all these allied to the lost of style a sense of purpose are going the wrong way down a one way street.
13/01/2014 @ 4:00 pm
was actually more disappointed with our fans away at the arse. we were so consumed with baiting them we forgot to support the team and once carsehole had made it 1-0 we all but stopped.
13/01/2014 @ 4:01 pm
The atmosphere is definitely worse now – not enough want to sing or stand – I am in lower shelf & the steward asked me to sit down 3 times on Saturday – he was only doing his job but why has he told to do this – away fans stand / park Lane lower stand & some of shelf lower.
There needs to be more passion – more new songs – come on all you fellow yids – let’s make the atmosphere special v Man City under the lights! Anyone up for it?
13/01/2014 @ 4:07 pm
I was there…. The Arse out sung us, that speaks volumes
13/01/2014 @ 6:11 pm
Do you want the Paxton Lower to help you out , You only have to ask
13/01/2014 @ 4:09 pm
Why is there this assumption that this is a problem unique to Spurs?
I strongly suspect that fans of all clubs bemoan the lack of atmosphere at home games and I don’t doubt it’s got worse in recent seasons. But I can’t stand the way some people seem hell-bent in turning this into an exercise in self-flagellation.
Oh and “they could do us all a favour and don’t bother to re-new their tickets then we might get some more enthusiastic fans in the ground”….really? These are people who put their money where their mouths are by stumping up upwards of £800 a year for season tickets…we really need to be very wary of making sweeping judgements about how people go about supporting their team.
13/01/2014 @ 4:16 pm
We want ‘supporters’ not moaners
13/01/2014 @ 4:19 pm
Supporters frequently ARE moaners.
As a crowd we have always be a bit volatile. Brilliant at times, quiet at others. In the 90s under Graham it was far, far worse for obvious reasons. It seems to me some people are tailoring the facts to suit their argument.
As for all these super-enthusiastic fans out there, I’d be interested to see how many of them were prepared to back that up with cold, hard cash which when all is said and done is the true test of the strength of somebody’s support.
14/01/2014 @ 7:15 pm
So poor people can’t be supporters? That’s just wrong.
15/01/2014 @ 9:45 am
Of course they can. But does that make the ones who have put their hands in their pockets for 30 years or whatever “consumers”?
13/01/2014 @ 5:24 pm
Paying money for your ticket doesnt make you a supporter. It makes you a consumer. The type of person I want staying the fuck away from the lane.
For the record, this isn’t a premier league wide issue. Stoke, Palace, and a few others still create a decent atmosphere. Even bloody Arsenal are improving with the creation of their red action area, and their stewards leaving them alone.
Stop making excuses.
13/01/2014 @ 5:42 pm
Spot on BushHill. During the game sing your heart out for ‘our team’. You can moan about the cost / the board / the coach on here later but on the day Support the team
14/01/2014 @ 7:16 pm
I feel sick, but I agree with you.
13/01/2014 @ 4:20 pm
Agree with Paul F in that the atmosphere was even worse in the 90s; unpopular chairman and an unpopular manager (ring any bells?). However I take my children now who have never had to experience the prospect of Spurs being relegated or waiting to hit the magical 40 points tally that almost ensured survival. This means there expectation is so much higher. To be fair it doesn’t help if the team you are supporting play like they’ve never met each other prior to walking out on the pitch.
13/01/2014 @ 4:51 pm
I’m sure the fact isn’t lost on you (as it isn’t on me) that our first team coaches are all from that dismal late 90s team. Sherwood at least joined as we were improving. Ferdinand and Freund are almost the embodiment of that dismal era. Lets hope Justin Edinburgh and Ian Walker dont turn up!
13/01/2014 @ 4:57 pm
I don’t think it’s unique to a Spurs. All Pl crowds are quiet at home and I don’t think it’s hard to know why. Established PL clubs home support is dominated by season ticket holders, who are, by and large, old men (like me!). It’s becoming the preserver of the middle aged, and going to matches has become just a routine, literally nothing to sing and dance about. The Palace’s and Hull’s of this world are different, they’ve been in the lower leagues with crowds miles below their capacities, so people who only want to go to 5 or 6 games a season can and do. These tend to be younger and more enthusiastic than the same old season ticket holders. It’s telling that once clubs start to establish themselves in the Pl, they fall into the same trap. Almost the whole ground is sold to season ticket holder (often on long deals, like Arsenal) and the atmos disappears. Look at Stoke as a perfect example. Bolton and Blackburn before them went the same way. The answer is, like Germany has, bigger stadia with cheaper prices and much fewer season tickets sold.
14/01/2014 @ 9:15 am
You are on the money with this analysis. It is actually quite embarrassing, as well as ludicrously simplistic, to compare us to clubs like Palace and Stoke.
13/01/2014 @ 5:00 pm
Strange that the noise levels have dipped over the avb era,we went from playing high pace,high quality at times risky football.But boy wasnt there something to sing about !Enter portoplonker and dripping taps,paint drying looked exciting in comparison.For me a Nth London boy by birth ,supporting the only Nth London club in the PL,how nice it is to hear a Nth London accent running the team.Carry on Mr.Sherwood I’m sure the atmosphere is going to pick shortly.COYS
13/01/2014 @ 5:27 pm
Getting sick of seeing posters saying “If what I saw on the pitch was better, then I would cheer more”
No, no, no for fuck sake! Do you call yourself a supporter? If so, you support your team through thick and thin. We are by no means in a bad place. Look at all the other teams around us we could be burdened with supporting?
Excuses are getting more and more pathetic by the year.
13/01/2014 @ 6:02 pm
I mostly agree, I think supporters should get behind the team and make some noise. I don’t agree with people who say fans should never boo though. I fking we’ll booed after the Liverpool match and have no regrets. I didn’t like what I had been seeing for the previous 18 months and that was the final straw. Booing, like waving the hankies in Spain, is a legitimate way for the fans to tell the board they’ve had enough.
You can’t boo all the time though, otherwise it loses it’s power (and is bad for the team). Anyone booing at half time during the Palace match, with the score at 0-0 and us 5th in the league, is a dick
13/01/2014 @ 6:00 pm
You can always ask the Paxton to help you out with a song ,Ask us nicely and all 8000 will sing
13/01/2014 @ 6:20 pm
Totally agree. I was sat North Stand/West Stand corner against WBA and Stoke and its like being in a morgue. I was stood up singing on my own for 15 mins trying and they all look like they are there to watch a film and applaud when we get near their goal. I was almost embarrassed and have now refused to ever sit there ever again! Usually only sit in South stand and thats where my feet will be permanently plonked now on!
13/01/2014 @ 6:22 pm
The away games are a joy, always have been. I recall being at Leeds United one year, we were doing awful and the Leeds fans were singing, ‘going down’ etc to which we Spurs fans replied with a vociferous chorus of ‘ so are we, so are we’ – pure class. it was an awful day football wise but we still sang for 90 minutes and enjoyed the experience. WHL used to be intimidating and players have often said it has a great atmosphere but the booing at half time is pointless, the efforts to increase noise get short shrift and something just isn’t the same. COME ON YOU SPURS, SING YOUR HEARTS OUT FOR THE LADS!!!
13/01/2014 @ 6:42 pm
To be honest, I can’t see much changing atmosphere-wise until the new stadium comes around.
The Park Lane has been closed to new season ticket holders or transfers for god knows how long now. It’s new life breathing into it and it’s just not happening right now.
The new stadium should hopefully shake things up a bit, allow the creation of a ‘singing’ and maybe even standing section which should improve things. It should also give those of us who attend every week on a Bronze membership the chance to sit with those who actually want to make some bloody noise. Those of us who at the moment are forced to feed off scattered pairs of seats dotted all around the ground because the Shelf and the PL are hard to get into.
As an aside, I’m sick to death of this ridiculous ‘oh they took my loyalty points off me so i’m pi**ed off’ rubbish. Utter nonsense. First off, all 22000 season ticket holders have priority over all other members….for every single fixture. Second, there are around one or perhaps two away fixtures a season (Arsenal away plus MAYBE one other) which involves season ticket holders without enough loyalty points being denied a ticket. Is that really something to get the massive hump about? You’ll also definitely get a ticket to a domestic cup final should we reach one.And what about the closed shop that those of us who merely due to our age were not able to get a ST before a waiting list became necessary? Third – everyone had the same rule applied and we all lost our loyalty points that were older than X number of seasons old. So all season ticket holders and members are working under the same system now (within their membership tiers). Whereas before, those of us who have missed out purely because of when we were born were faced with the possibility of literally never, ever closing the gap on the older fans….fair? Fair my arse. Put against the back drop of our drastically ageing support (like all PL clubs), maintaining the current system was madness. I’ve got 397 loyalty points as a Bronze member – which is more than all but 300 of my fellow Bronze/Lilywhite members. Why? Because I’ve been more than they have in the last five years. Pretty simple really.
14/01/2014 @ 8:58 pm
I’m in my mid-twenties and an active Bronze Member – increasingly close to the Season Ticket list now. I go to about 10 games a season both home and away, especially the cups (as they are often easier and cheaper to get tickets).
The thing I have really noticed over the years is the complete and utter lack of atmosphere in the Paxton Road End (i.e. the family and North Stand). It is obviously a good thing to have some discounted seats for families, OAPs and the like, however it is literally a library. To me this end should be fortress that the players enjoy attacking, like our mini-Kop or whatever. It is actually a weird experience to sit there, it makes me feel embarrassed and uncomfortable to sit in an area of so many so-called fans that just sit silent. I don’t think people even know the songs there. What can the club do about this? Perhaps give these fans a song book or singing lessons?!
The Park Lane (South Stand) and the East Stand (up the Park Lane end) do a decent job and whenever possible I try to get tickets there and join in with the singing. Obviously that end has the away fans so this helps.
West Stand is rubbish for atmosphere as well but for £80 a ticket these people are probably paying to avoid the rest of us.
Away support, needless to say, is spot on.
I’m all behind the 1882 movement. COYS.
15/01/2014 @ 9:53 am
The Paxton is as you say for families/kids. It isn’t ever going to be a hotbed of vocal support: you’ll get “We Love You Tottenham” now and then but you can’t expect old folks and kids to be making that sort of noise and mustering the necessary adrenalin/aggression/testosterone/whatever and everyone in that end is going to be aware of their surroundings. Not really fair to write people who sit there off as “so-called fans” though.
The Park Lane and Shelf Side are the aforementioned hotbeds, hence the singing between them. The Park Lane is superb when it gets going.