A regular visitor to White Hart Lane, Alex Kalli is fully behind the concept of the 1882 movement, but has some concerns about what he has seen so far.
1882 Causes Issues, but it’s also Good for the Club
First of all, I have been a season ticket holder at Spurs for almost 20 years now and am also an away game regular. I am only 25-years old and have grown up with the club. I don’t know any different. I have also been in and around a very hardcore bunch of Spurs fans who travel the world to see them and have been going for over 40 years. I am a vocal Spurs fan who sings, shouts and lets my feelings known in match days.
I personally really like the concept of the 1882 ‘movement’ and the idea of it. However, I do have major concerns from what I have seen so far. I have heard a lot of people say that it stinks of a small club mentality…. In fairness I don’t think the movement does at all, though I do think lots of their actions so far maybe do.
We are a big club, known all over Europe. Other groups of supporters know about us and our support, we are seen as hardcore supporters who always take big away followings around Europe. We are known for having a good atmosphere, although this is now on the decline.
1882 can help that. They are trying to get a group of supporters together who want to sing for 90 minutes and have a good time. That is no crime. That can only be a good thing. It will encourage others to join in and, in turn, hopefully raise the noise levels at the Lane again.
However, WHL has always been known as a loud and often intimidating ground. The issue I think with the 1882 activity is that it actually turns WHL into a bit of a playground. At the game against Hull my brother said to me “who are those kids in the Shelf upper?”. He had never heard of 1882. I explained to him what they were about and he whilst he thought it was a good idea, he said it was “very kiddish and fun”, rather than loud and intimidating.
For me there has to be a balance; songs such as “shoes off”, “phones up” etc, make a slight mockery of what we are about. We are not a small side happy to be where we are. We are a big club, with a big history.
I rarely ever hear 1882 sing “Glory, Glory Hallelujah…”. The song that quite frankly is our club. It is Tottenham Hotspur. The problem with 1882 is, it seems like people are there just for a jolly, and even if we are losing 4-0 will carry on singing about Nicola Berti. This again reeks of a small club in my opinion.
[linequote]Criticising season ticket holders. This is not the way to go about it. We are one. We all want to see our club lifting trophies and challenging for titles.[/linequote]
The other major issue I have is how many 1882 followers see it as themselves against other fans. This is a major issue. Mocking the Park Lane in recent games about how they used to sing; criticising season ticket holders. This is not the way to go about it: we are one. We all want to see our club lifting trophies and challenging for titles. Now I’m not saying that the 1882 organisers do this, but there is a lot of it going on inside that circle. I’ve witnessed it first hand. I know a season ticket holder who has been to every game for 25 years, home and away. He doesn’t sing. That’s his right. He does not deserve to be criticised for that. This has to change.
As a season ticket holder over the last 20 years the best atmosphere was without a doubt during the era of Glenn Hoddle’s management. That was loud, and that was proud. Poor side, electric atmosphere. It was united. “Glenn Hoddle’s blue and white army” rang out for almost 90 minutes every week. That said, Hoddle is one of our own, he is the King of WHL and that probably played a factor. The atmosphere now is at the biggest low that I can remember from my time of going to spurs. The Pleat days, Francis days, Ramos days were never as quiet as it is now.
Spurs fans used to make their voices heard, even if it was to protest – such as Portsmouth away four or five years ago when Redknapp’s side kicked us off the park and beat us 2-0. The chant of “We Are Tottenham” was continuous for 45 minutes straight in that second half. I have never seen anything like it. It was a protest to show that us fans will remain there no matter what. Even bottom of the league with one point as we had at that time. Nowadays, it gets to 85 mins on a clock, we are 1-0 up the ground starts emptying. This isn’t Tottenham.
This is where I think 1882 can be immense. The theory and concept is fantastic. For me it’s the execution that needs working on. Let’s not lose our identity. Let’s not be Crystal Palace. Let’s not be Reading. Let’s not be happy clappers. Let’s not hold shoes or phones in the air like League One sides, let’s not pretend to score a goal like a Conference side playing an FA cup Third round tie. Let’s remain a big club with a big club mentality. Let’s be loud, let’s be proud but let’s most importantly be Tottenham.
[author name=”Alex Kalli” avatar=”https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/378800000572837517/4debf764e54b875c951d55091cddf24c.jpeg” bio=”I don’t know how to put this but I’m kind of a big deal. People Know me. Project Manager. Glory Glory Hallelujah” twitter=”SirAlex_K[/linequote]
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13 Comments
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15/11/2013 @ 1:48 pm
Sorry Alex, I’ve read this three times now and I’m still not sure what you’re trying to get at?
So you want the 1882, but don’t want anyone to know about it? Your reasoning being that you equate any attempt to break from the sanitised and corporate atmosphere that has been cultivated at modern football grounds, as being within a ‘small club mentality’?
It’s either a sad day for football that a fan as dedicated as yourself has been brainwashed into thinking that, or indicative of the snobbish middle class attitudes that are destroying the atmosphere at the Lane. It’s also rather contradictory that you mention that some of our best support in recent memory has been when we’ve been struggling or stuck in a state of mediocrity.
It’s not like those who gathered in the 1882 area of the stadium wouldn’t normally sing wherever they would normally sit. They would have been in my boat (I managed to make the Hull game at the last minute) sat in the East Stand trying to get chants going by myself. As per normal, you’re often left hanging on your own, worried that you’re annoying people around you. Who in my case spent most of the 120 minutes staring at the boxes in the West stand with an expression that read ‘they look warm’.
Everyone has the right not to sing at WHL, but don’t look down on those who do because that’s the root of the problem. You can’t label something as contrived and ‘kiddish’ when someone tries to change something, which you yourself mentioned as at an all time low, for the better.
As your article proves, sadly we live in an era where people disproportionally equate the length of season ticket renewal period with some rationalised amount of entertainment they have to receive before they offer unconditional support. You of all people should know that it doesn’t work like that just because we have a competitive team these days. Your support for Spurs is like a dysfunctional family member, you love and encourage them whatever they do or say (to a point!).
As a Spurs kid of the 90’s myself, THESE are the times we should be enjoying. They might not always be around. But hey, at least if that happens then I won’t be labelled as tarnishing the club with a small club mentality if I sing more that twice over 90 minutes at the Lane.
/rant
15/11/2013 @ 2:01 pm
…get rid of all-seater stadiums like in Germany, prices could (but probably wouldn’t) go down, crowds up, electric atmospheres again. Simples.
15/11/2013 @ 5:58 pm
Yes, having the choice to stand and get a little crazy is a good thing! The game should be an event, an experience. Sit if you want to, stand if you prefer. But clubs need to offer fans a choice, reflected in appropriate prices.
15/11/2013 @ 2:28 pm
As an older Spurs fan I long for the days when the whole crowd, in unison, sang Glory Glory Hallelujah. Not in that quick ‘bored’ way when pockets of our support have occasionally sang snippets of it and say Glory Glory Tottenham Hotspur, and/or when the Spurs Go Marching ON ON ON, before drifting onto other chants!
But in that beautiful melodic, long, slow ‘and as one’ voice, resonating around the Lane, which truly celebrated the fact that we were playing really outstanding football and that the rest of the country, and Europe, knew it! I guess most fans under 40 wouldn’t even know what I’m talking about ..but it was Tottenham’s anthem, is, and always will be. Yes, you can hear the quick uninspiring and non-feeling versions at other grounds too (eg Glory Glory Man United etc ..Give us a break, and get your own song!), yet, when sung at its best it transcended even those heady nights at Anfield, during their great days, when the Kop et al sang ‘You’ll Never Walk Alone’.
The strains of Glory Glory Allelujah, when sang with feeling about our club, is like heaven ..and when we return to those days of Spurs superiority (and we will! Or let’s carry them there on the back of it) I hope that young and old Spurs fans alike will turn that song once more into our main anthem ..singing it slowly and with respect and feeling (with the strains of it heading up towards Edmonton and down the High Road to Seven Sisters)..inspiring our team to even greater heights, and making the opposition droop in awe! ..And the Spurs go Marching ONNNNNNNNNNNNNN (fading just like a bell)!! Those can be our days again ..they MUST be our days again!
15/11/2013 @ 3:21 pm
Fine article, good points… and couldn’t agree more. The ‘shoes off, phones up’ stuff just won’t lead to a better atmosphere – rather it will baffle many and even anger others. It’s like the ‘singing zone’ nonsense those fools from Old Trafford pipe up about. It really does reek of a small club on a big day out. I’m all for loud and proud, but this lot are in danger of becoming a version of those annoying people at discos who demand that you dance and then deem you ‘boring’ when you don’t. All we need to remember is that we’re supporters, the whole point being to ‘support’. So sing up Tottenham
15/11/2013 @ 4:10 pm
Lots of good points from all sides here but you’re all pissing in the wind. What has happened to the club and its support due to the relevant ‘success’ of recent years is only what’s happened at Old Trafford, Stamford Bridge, Emirates over the past decade. Spurs are just lagging behind a bit with the flirtation with the fairly recent ‘Champions’ League run.
Successful clubs attract new fans/customers. These are generally fed on 20 years of Sky Tv’s vision of what football is. Families from the home counties decked out in club merchandise skipping along to a sparkling soulless new stadium to be entertained. And that’s what they expect. To sit there and be entertained just like they’ve seen on their Murdoch box.
And that’s what has happened to the support in recent years. New fans are a completely different kind of fan from the generation before. The instant success that mega money seems to bring has spawned a culture of fandom that would have been unthinkable before Sky and their money obsessed Premier League came and saved football *sighs*.
Whichever side of the 1882 coin you’re on, it doesn’t really matter. You want success then this is what your football has to be like. Pay up, sit down, shut up, fuck off. A wealthy family who will spend lots in the club shop and then sit there like the saps they are is exactly what the club want. Doesn’t take a genius to work out the atmosphere is going to be crap does it.?
17/11/2013 @ 3:49 pm
Good points. Sad, though!
15/11/2013 @ 11:41 pm
Well said Alex. This is all pretty much exactly what I said in my reply to the other 1882 blog on here so couldn’t agree more. The problem I’m seeing though is that many who are a part of it and for it don’t seem to want to hear or respect others fans opinions and label us as killjoys for daring to challenge it.
For me it’s quite simple. The 1882 idea has the power to do something fantastic at games, to really get the lane rocking again and act as the conductor for everyone else. If done the right way. For me it’s not currently being done the right way though. One of my first points was also that rarely, if ever, heard the 1882 crowd sing glory glory… a true, classic Spurs anthem. They could inspire the rest of the ground to sing and join in once more if collectively belting out that songs that we’re synonymous for, the songs that are our true identity. Yet sadly I feel persisting with the shoes off and other dodgy non Spurs related songs is never, ever going to integrate the rest of the ground and is always going to make 1882 look like it’s own private little jolly.
The 1882 idea has the potential to be fantastic and is a great idea if used the right way. Unfortunately though for me and many others it’s potential isn’t quite being fulfilled.
It’s also important to remember that whoever pays their money and makes the effort to travel to the lane has the right to watch the game however they want. Be that singing for 90 minutes or sat more quietly enjoying the game with their friends. Whether we like it or not everyone who buys a ticket has a right to be there and support how they choose.
17/11/2013 @ 3:34 pm
Season ticket holder since you were about 5? I smell privilege!
03/12/2013 @ 7:09 am
I have been a proud friend of his father for 40 odd years. He has worked hard in a ordinary job to give his kids the best. I have travelled the world with some great people who have often given up many things just to afford to go.
What you smell is the love of the club. I could go on but the Sky generation will never understand.
17/11/2013 @ 3:53 pm
What if the 1882 spread themselves out throughout the crowd and tried to invigorate them? What if there were attempts to teach/share the songs? I’ve only been to WHL a few times and don’t really know any of the songs. Sorry if that lowers my credibility, but not everyone who supports Spurs can get to WHL so easily! At least I’m free of pretension, I suppose.
02/12/2013 @ 10:53 pm
Stirring anthems yes, songs about Jose Dominguez and Alfie Conn no. Great concept but try not to look like 200 Timmy Mallett’s.
One thing that is overlooked is the cause of the anxiety that fills the ground, you know, the knowledge that what can possibly go wrong inevitably will. These annual humiliations take their toll. Post Traumatic Stress Disorder perhaps.
03/12/2013 @ 12:46 pm
Agree with the article. City fans were mocking us about the shoes thing. So whilst I agree the atmosphere needs to improve – especially at The Lane – the way 1882 are going about it all seems a bit 6th form to me.