This is a difficult article to write. It goes against the self-interest of the majority of our loyal, match-going fan base and takes a view not often seen in Spurs social media circles. Many have vented their outrage at the clubs actions and I’m sure they will continue to do so after reading this. However, I feel […]
The Point of Loyalty at Spurs
This is a difficult article to write. It goes against the self-interest of the majority of our loyal, match-going fan base and takes a view not often seen in Spurs social media circles. Many have vented their outrage at the clubs actions and I’m sure they will continue to do so after reading this. However, I feel that there is another side to the story, one that’s not often voiced that needs to be said and needs to be heard by the vocal majority.
If you have been a Member or Season Ticket holder at Spurs for more than four years you will have found that any loyalty points gained from before that time have been cut. Removed. Destroyed. Never to be seen again. This is unfair. An embarrassment. A betrayal of loyalty. How can it be called ‘loyalty’ if it only extends for four years? Surely that makes the term redundant?
You followed Spurs through the Hoddle, Santini, Jol and Ramos eras of varying degrees of hardship yet the loyalty you showed, the money you spent, the hours put in going to remote northern shit-holes on cold winter nights through the tough times, has been discounted by the club as worthless now that times are good and the future looks bright.
[linequote] How can it be called ‘loyalty’ if it only extends for four years? Surely that makes the term redundant?[/linequote]
An unjust, callous and harsh approach designed to encourage the glory hunters – the ‘johnny-come-latelies’ of the past four years – to become more involved with the club and therefore spend more cash. Pushing you out of the club you have loyally followed all this time.
I totally understand this view, and if I was in that position I would feel exactly the same way. However, I am not in that position. I am 18 years old and relatively new to Spurs compared to some.
When I started going to away games and felt the need to gain a membership (after several years of going to a few home games a season that went onto general sale) at Spurs I was 15 and this came bang at the point of, arguably, our greatest success in recent years in the 2010-11 Champions League campaign.
Maybe I was drawn to our success. A prime ‘Jonny-Come-Lately’ as many would call it. Possibly, but for me, consciously anyway, it was the joy and atmosphere of live football and huge crowds and stadiums that hooked me onto football and then dragged with it a love of the game, rather than the other way around.
[linequote]I looked at my piddly 30 members loyalty points at the time, and my 40,000th position on the Season Ticket waiting list and began to realise that it would take decades to make that gulf up[/linequote]
I remember looking at the loyalty point cut-offs for the big games that year. The Milan away games – 500+ loyalty points – Arsenal, Chelsea and all the usual suspects. I looked at my piddly 30 loyalty points at the time, and my 40,000th position on the Season Ticket waiting list and began to realise that it would take decades to make that gulf up, more even, considering the fact those in the 500 LP bracket, would continue to amass points.
Ask yourself, if you were a young fan, at that point in time, looking at the amount of hard graft, loyalty and time (and money) it would take to attend cup finals or big away games, would you have been seriously encouraged to take up supporting Spurs home and away?
Coupled with the ridiculous ticket prices and lack of concessions in the Premier League, any sane young person would find another hobby, or simply opt out of watching live football.
It is a fact that fans aged 16-25 (once its lifeblood), are being forced from attending live football. The next time you are in White Hart Lane take a look around at the average age of the crowd. Ticket prices and loyalty points prevent potential young fans from wanting, or being able to attend any game let alone a semi, or cup final.
Before the loyalty point cull was introduced a new or young fan, even if he travels to every game he can get to, home and away for seasons on end, finds himself unable to attend Arsenal away because older fans are sitting on mountains of loyalty points, cherry picking the big games and living off loyalty gained years previously.
Think about it, should that system have continued, young fans become punished and restricted from attending games because of loyalty they did not show, and older fans did, before they were able to show said loyalty. Possibly even before they were born! My point is that the system that was in place could not continue, and needed to be changed before it did irreversible damage.
[linequote]The system that was in place could not continue, and needed to be changed before it did irreversible damage[/linequote]
Tough, you may say. Loyalty is loyalty. It cannot be restricted to a specific time and any system looking to calculate loyalty must treat it all at the same face value, regardless of time. I’m sure a few reading this are thinking that very thing. The young fans will just have to wait their turn. As long as we sell out our allocations it doesn’t matter how old the fan base is. As long as I get what’s coming to me in terms of my loyalty over previous years, as opposed to any potential loyalty these whippersnappers may show I couldn’t care less.
It’s a fair point, should you not look out for future generations of fans, and exist entirely in your own self-absorbed bubble with no care for the future of the club. Except that it doesn’t stand up, unfortunately. The loyalty points system started in 2001, meaning that any loyalty shown before that time counted for nothing. In the same way that so many people have declared as unjust and unfair about the destruction of their loyalty points after a certain amount of time, the exact same thing happened, to their benefit at the beginning of the last decade.
So the argument that placing a time period on it makes loyalty redundant is therefore null and void. It has always been the same way, only now it includes an incentive for fans to keep attending matches and provides a light at the end of the tunnel for new, young fans rather than allowing what my friend controversially names the “loyalty points mafia” to continue.
[linequote]We have Tottenham but we need to ensure the next generation and the one after that, also have Tottenham[/linequote]
This may be seen by some as a dig at older fans. It’s not. Any fan that has followed Spurs home and away, for any length of time, has my greatest respect and will always continue to do so. I’m simply trying to point out that what has become conventional wisdom over the past two summers is not necessarily the case.
That particular system had to end; the club isn’t pure evil and finally, we must now work together with the newly reformed Tottenham Hotspur Supporters Trust (official supporter representation to the club: follow @THSTOfficial on twitter) to better engage with the club to find the most fair and just system of rewarding fans’ loyalty.
All the while, bringing the next generation of fans into the club, in the same way that every single one of us was with open arms, at some point. We have Tottenham but we need to ensure the next generation and the one after that, also have Tottenham.
[author name=”Gabe Farrell” avatar=”https://si0.twimg.com/profile_images/3767700982/948267ea9a17d61596d9065bad235ec1.png” twitter=”OurClubsFuture” tag=”GabeFarrell[/linequote]
All views and opinions expressed in this article are the views and opinions of the writer and do not necessarily represent the views of The Fighting Cock. We offer a platform for fans to commit their views to text and voice their thoughts. Football is a passionate game and as long as the views stay within the parameters of what is acceptable, we encourage people to write, get involved and share their thoughts on the mighty Tottenham Hotspur.
20 Comments
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21/08/2013 @ 1:43 pm
Couldn’t agree more
21/08/2013 @ 2:00 pm
I’ve been a season ticket holder for over 20 years but I lost a shed load of my loyalty points in recent years as work and family commitments have meant I’ve not been able to go to away games as frequently as I used to, not to mention the cost. And I’m fine with it; I accept that there are guys (and gals) who go home and away, week in, week out, so if I fancy going to Arsenal away why should I get a ticket in place of someone who traveled to Sunderland the week before?
That said, I struggle to see how I am going to claw those points back. I doubt I’ll ever get tickets for a big/London away game again and I am concerned that if we get to a major cup final (FA or Europa) that I will miss the cut off for tickets if there is not enough to go round all season ticket holders.
I emphasise with the club; they either do nothing and shut younger fans out like you say, or they make a change at the risk of upsetting others. Someone somewhere is always going to be pissed off but I think they’ve made the right call
21/08/2013 @ 2:01 pm
I’ve been following spurs since 1967 and have gone through all the sh*t times including relegation in 1977 but I have to agree with you. WHL is beginning to resemble a retirement home in places and we need younger support for the future.
21/08/2013 @ 2:01 pm
Isn’t it strange how the loyalty points scheme was ended the same time we became partners (more or less) with stub hub? I don’t believe in coincidences.
The loyalty points thing didn’t have any on affect me but I disagree with this article and it contradicts itself a little. You say you respect the older fans that have gone to all the crappy Europa games etc over the years to accumulate enough points to earn the ability to go to the big games yet you don’t think that going to those crappy games and supporting the team when you didn’t, should give those fans the ability to have first dibs on the big game tickets? That’s a contradiction my friend. If they were willing to spend £100s or £1000s on going to the far off games for years on end they deserve first claim on the local derby games. Loyalty points was fair because it rewarded long term loyalty, it is those long term loyal fans that go to every game and sing their hearts out for the club. They don’t pick and choose which games they want to support spurs for they go to all of them.
Besides, they waited their turn. Why shouldn’t you have to wait yours? You have got to jump the cue and I hate cue jumpers.
21/08/2013 @ 3:00 pm
‘ Loyalty points was fair because it rewarded long term loyalty, it is those long term loyal fans that go to every game and sing their hearts out for the club. They don’t pick and choose which games they want to support spurs for they go to all of them.’
I think you may be missing the point slightly. If don’t pick and chose the games you go to then you would still be at the top of the LP list even after the cull as you would have around 600 LPs for the 4 seasons while someone just attending the home games would have a maximum of 200 (35*4 + home cup LPs). This impacts people who no longer travel to the non glamour games whether this is by choice or circumstance
It’s the people who have had a season ticket for 10 years and been given 35 points per season plus whatever points they picked up for home cup games. Sometimes there would be several home games each year each giving 5 points a pop. A season ticket holder for 10 years could have 500 LPs without ever going to an away game.
This also helped ‘mate’ of these people Loyalty points was fair because it rewarded long term loyalty, it is those long term loyal fans that go to every game and sing their hearts out for the club. They don’t pick and choose which games they want to support spurs for they go to all of them.
21/08/2013 @ 3:03 pm
Well that’s strange….. I wish I could edit the above. Only the first two paragraph should have been posted as I did try to rewrite it :(
21/08/2013 @ 4:37 pm
I’m not sure that you read the article mate, please read it again if you did.
21/08/2013 @ 2:03 pm
well written, with some good points! But how would you feel if you were me last season? First went to spurs in 1969, seson ticket holder since the 80s.. Only missed three home games since 1983, inc friendlies, tests, euros, league, but didnt have enough loyalty points for arsenal away last season!
Never had holidays to coincide with home games.
The club must know supporters with very high loyalty points dont always attend games themselves, they apply for friends, family who use their card, whilst getting the points themselves, so until someone comes up with a way of ensuring that only the person attending gets the points, it will never be fair.
21/08/2013 @ 4:43 pm
but the loyalty points system only began in 2001? So the vast majority of your loyalty was never accepted anyway? and yes I agree with the other point.
21/08/2013 @ 2:05 pm
Thing is. You wouldn’t ever get Arsenal away unless you’re a season ticket holder anyway. Fans who cherry pick the big aways, they get 1 point. If you go to Sunderland, Hull, Bolton etc you get 5 points. Do 10 aways a season and you’ve got a minimum for 30+ points, based on a 3 point average. Those who cherry pick and only attend the 3/4 aways that you get 1 point for, you soon overtake them, obviously not on 1 season but you get there in a couple. I understand where you are coming from however totally disagree with the clubs decision. I worked abroad for past 18 months so unable to attend as many games, my points have been cut in half, now people jumping on the bandwagon who’ve been gong 2 years are likely level pegging if not ahead of me in the points stake. My main ‘point’ is if you do the time at the non glamour aways (which normally turn out to be top days!) then you get the glamour games eventually. Club has made it’s decision now and that’s it…..good article though.
21/08/2013 @ 2:45 pm
Hmmm, not sure I agree with you there.
If I have 1000 LPs and you have 100 LPs then, from your example, it would take 30 years for you to make up the points difference at 30 LPs per season.
Maybe this is an extreame example but there were games requiring to 500+ LPs per year. Your time to make up the 400 difference? A much more reasonable 13 to 14 years.
A cull was badly required.
21/08/2013 @ 3:07 pm
Those 500LP games. Season ticket only though yes?
The article talks about wanting to go to Arsenal away. That’s ST only. He won’t be able to get tickets despite the cut as its never going to reach bronze members. I was referring to bronze membership games, which there have not been any with stupidly high loyalty points.
If I started with 0 LP today, and went home and away (where I could get tickets), I’d end up being on 300 points+ by the end of next season, which would all but guarantee my tickets for any away where it wasn’t ST only.
And as a precious poster says, the artickr doubles back on itself, respect for those that have done the shit aways, but I don’t want to do them just the big games. You don’t walk in on your first day at work and become director (unless you set up your own biz of course!).
Either way, pointless now as the decision is over 12 months old. It’s not going to change.
21/08/2013 @ 3:08 pm
Also apologies for typo’s – on my phone so it auto corrects
21/08/2013 @ 2:35 pm
My LP log on the Spurs site shows:
‘You have -654 loyalty points, deducted by manual adjustment on 31/07/2013, 14:00’
Is this fair?
Yes, yes it is.
People who have had a ticket for many years but no longer go away, unless it’s to Arsenal, Chelsea or a choice away trip in Europe, needed to lose their unfair advantage. There is nothing to stop them going to away games to build up thier LPs again but at least it will give people who make the journey to Sunderland and Hull a better shot at the bigger games.
I still have around 400 LPs and I might even go back to Platinum next year (if they are any left) so my cards are on the table… I will still get a ticket to all but the smallest away European allocations but it would only be my fault if this was not the case.
21/08/2013 @ 2:40 pm
I’ve had a season ticket for 25 years, lost all my loyalty points, but i completely agree with that policy. You’re only as good as your last season. I used to go to a lot of away games, so with my loyalty points i could pick and chose the few away games i wanted to go to without having to go to many or show much loyalty. Spurs need young fans who want to go to every game home and away. If you’ve been going since year X and still go home and away then you are still going to be top of the loyalty point list…if you don’t go to many away games any more then you are going to drop down the list. All perfectly fair. I’ve no problem with having lost my loyalty points.
21/08/2013 @ 8:56 pm
Completely agree with this article.
22/08/2013 @ 6:04 pm
I agree with some form of system that stopped season ticket holders who clocked up years of home only game points then getting ahead of me for tickets to the scummery. I knew some who only ever went to one away game and that was it.
However I would like to see the points system overhauled. How can Man U away live on Sky on a Monday night be worth only 1 point when Man U at home on a Saturday is also a 1 pointer? Distance and games on TV must be taken into account for loyalty points.
Last year at long last I got a scummery ticket and have one this year as well. Lets hope for a better performance
23/08/2013 @ 7:22 pm
Similar situation with me, I first picked up my membership in the CL season when I turned 16, i’d been a member from the ages of 0-10 but my dad simply couldn’t afford for us to go all the time so we just chose a few games per season that went to general sale. As soon as I got a job aged 16 I bought my membership again but had to start on 0 points.
I can see the argument from both sides on the culling of loyalty points. Sympathise with people that lost loads but at the same time people that go regularly now are deserving of getting the big games. Only way of making it fair would be to have two loyalty points totals, one for ‘all-time’ and one for ‘three/four-years’ – then split the away allocations between the two (but logistically and realistically, this is not a possible solution).
Personally I get to 5-10 games a year home/away so I doubt i’ll ever have enough points for the bigger games, hopefully once i’ve finished uni i’ll be able to go to more!
23/08/2013 @ 9:48 pm
I’m not young but I feel your anguish, I’ve been a Spurs fan for 10 years, a blow-in I know, but I think the truth is that we are a far bigger club then WHL allows us to be, really, we should have a stadium with double the capacity. But that fix is a few years off so I guess we’ll have to grin and bare it. A sobering truth is with AVB’s recreation and the massive spend this season, THFC needs to maximize profits to put us in contention with the top 3, to relegate some other club to 4/5 – so would I love to get a glimpse of a season ticket, yes, would I want that us to be a mid-to-lower-table team which is the only way prices would come down, hell no! onward and upwards I say.
24/08/2013 @ 4:07 pm
I’ve got a lot of sympathy with the arguments here, and I agree that something needed to be done to give a younger generation a chance to get away tickets. But I don’t think it’s right to characterise the criticisms of the change as being fuelled simply by a desire to stay ahead of the queue.
The club introduced a loyalty point system, and we bought into that system. After we bought into it, the club unilaterally decided to change the whole basis of the system. It’s no longer a loyalty point system, it’s a recent support system. And those who have gone regularly to games most recently are the fans who have been able to afford the highest prices in the club’s history. Coincidence? No way. And that situation will continue – rewarding fans simply on the basis that they’ve been for the most recent 4 years and so contributing to the social engineering of the crowd the club is so obviously pursuing.
Much of the anger from those of us who bought into the LP system in good faith has come because what we were told we were getting has been changed as it continued to be sold to us. And it doesn’t take account of real life – fans’ circumstances change, they have families, work commitments etc that may mean that, for a stretch, they can’t attend as regularly. Does that make them less loyal? Or just human? Now, a brief spell of reduced attendance will be punished long term.
I don’t think the change had anything at all to do with wanting to get a younger generation in. Are the prices going down? No. And that’s the single most important thing that could attract younger fans. In fact, the club’s grubby deal with the legalised ticket touts will push prices up even more, and undermines the membership schemes it uses to allegedly attract younger fans.
The club could have, for example, instituted a system which provided a LP total for each season made up from the previous 3 year’s points totals plus a random two years from the period since the scheme started. They may have been other ideas which struck a better balance. But the club didn’t consult. It didn’t listen, As usual it arrogantly went ahead with it’s ‘we know best’ attitude, dismissing the possibility that anyone else might actually have a constructive idea.
Just another example of the contempt in which the current board holds the fans.